Palm Springs Air Museum P-51...

[airnutz]

Is that blue colour historically correct?

There was a time where a bunch of people thought so, based on some faded color photos from period.

Actually Randy, I thought the error had been attributed to a mistake in the original printing process which was perpetuated by the USAF and National archives for 20 years or so and they were widely printed in periodicals up through the 60's and 1970's until they were corrected to what we see now.

[airnutz]

On the topic of color , Olive Drab, or possibly more accurately RAF Dark Green, would be proper for a 361st FG scheme.

...or a combination thereof, some suggest Army Medium Green as a contender. If you look at some of the photos there are two shades of color apparent. The first blue ones appeared in the 60's and the whole thing snowballed until the Vets and historians caught up to the subject.

[cwmc]

The man that kept this P-51 in the 60's and 70's was Chuck Doyle. He is one of the earliest and sometimes least known warbird guys.
Chuck was an airshow pilot as far back as 1939 when he flew the Laird Solution as a skywriter, then after WWII he bought some P-40's, P-51's (A-36, A models, and D's) and P-35. I was once told by him how he operated the Mustangs into his 1500 foot farm strip when the engines needed heavy work, "you had to pick your day", refering to wind and how you felt. Neat person to talk to, he was a famous skywriter in his many 450 Stearmans into his 80's and a Captain for Northwest, too.
Three of the fighters in the Air Force Museum are his donations; the A-36, P-35 and P-40E.
The Pond's bought the Mustang and P-40N from Chuck and these were the last of his fighters.
Chris...

[CraigQ]

Is that blue colour historically correct?

There was a time where a bunch of people thought so, based on some faded color photos from period.

Actually Randy, I thought the error had been attributed to a mistake in the original printing process which was perpetuated by the USAF and National archives for 20 years or so and they were widely printed in periodicals up through the 60's and 1970's until they were corrected to what we see now.

It actually goes all the way back to WW2 when a British 'spotter' (or enthusiast into days terms) recorded in his notes that he observed a couple of 361stFG Mustangs painted with blue paint. His name fails me but to my knowledge he was the only one to see blue Mustangs but unfortunately for the 361st FG & its Vets, it somehow became fact.
Over the years in my involvement with the 361st and its Vets, my own father included, not a man jack one from any of the 3 squadrons acknowledge the use of blue paint for camo on any 361st Mustang with the exception of wingtips, canopy rails or rudders on 375thFS aircraft, and a couple of 374thFS Mustangs ( TIKA IV for one) before the colors were standardized by squadron. Each and every one have emphatically stated that a dark green was used.
What the folks who like to slip in the "well, their memories aren't as good as they used to be so they probably really don't remember correctly" is, don't get is that the 361st Vets have been dealing with and denying it since the end of the war. They have all pretty much wearied of it and leave folks to their own conclusion whatever it may be. To quote the late Joe Redden, Asst. CC of 375th FS ace Bill Kemp (Betty Lee I,II & III) " A person spends a million dollars on a Mustang they can paint it lavender if they want to".


Craig Quattlebaum
361st Vet descendant &
361stFG Assoc VP

[Pogo]

The man that kept this P-51 in the 60's and 70's was Chuck Doyle....

Chris, thanks so much for that little bio.........

[Warbirdnerd]

The man that kept this P-51 in the 60's and 70's was Chuck Doyle. He is one of the earliest and sometimes least known warbird guys.
Chuck was an airshow pilot as far back as 1939 when he flew the Laird Solution as a skywriter, then after WWII he bought some P-40's, P-51's (A-36, A models, and D's) and P-35. I was once told by him how he operated the Mustangs into his 1500 foot farm strip when the engines needed heavy work, "you had to pick your day", refering to wind and how you felt. Neat person to talk to, he was a famous skywriter in his many 450 Stearmans into his 80's and a Captain for Northwest, too.
Three of the fighters in the Air Force Museum are his donations; the A-36, P-35 and P-40E.
The Pond's bought the Mustang and P-40N from Chuck and these were the last of his fighters.
Chris...

100% Spot on. Chuck was a treat. I was fortunate enough to tour the NMUSAF with him a couple of years before he passed away. Somewhere I think I have a picture of him on the wing of the P-35 he donated to the Museum. He went over the barrier and was up on the wing in a flash...
As for the P-51 do you know if they are keeping the air conditioning and the cassette tape deck? (2 things all the "cadillac" Mustangs had in the early 80's ) I'm pretty sure they won't repaint it, there is a TON of bondo on that bird...

[eallen]

Thanks fellas for the info on the color schemes! I knew there would be good info posted on that part! I too was trying to think of the other "blue" mustangs out there and was glad to see the list posted! Remember good old "Six-Shooter" owned by Chuck Hall in Ramona, CA has a blue paints scheme as well.

The mechanic I talked to at the museum also told me that the P-63 and the P-51 were the museums (something to do with how they were "given" to the museum) and were the main attention getters for getting back in the air. The rest of the collection is caught up in legal issues that are being worked on.

Their C-47 appeared to have a fresh paint scheme and was flown the day I was there. It made a couple of nice passes after an hour or so of flying.

[bdk]

The rest of the collection is caught up in legal issues that are being worked on.

If by "legal issues" you mean that they haven't been paid for yet, you are correct. They are on indefinite loan in the mean time and will remain static until the funds can be raised.

Or so I'm told second hand...

[cwmc]

As for the P-51 do you know if they are keeping the air conditioning and the cassette tape deck? (2 things all the "cadillac" Mustangs had in the early 80's ) I'm pretty sure they won't repaint it, there is a TON of bondo on that bird...

Hah, hah,
I fear that, much like the Bearcat, all of that history will be lost to the "original" crowd's idea of what history is supposed to be.
The civil paint, a/c and tape deck were what the WWII vet had in it, I find that I would want to keep it that way.
Chris...

[Lightjug]

The man that kept this P-51 in the 60's and 70's was Chuck Doyle....

Chris, thanks so much for that little bio.........

Ditto... "you had to pick your day"... classic line

[eallen]

So fast forward a couple of years. Looks like a talented crew of craftsmen have been hard at work to get the plane back in the air...nice face book page with lots of pics and info. I am not a face book guy and was able to access the site.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/P-51-Mus ... e_internal

[wendovertom]

Awesome! It looks great.

Tom P.