Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:50 am
That sounds like a great idea!
I'll help any way possible. We have a 89,000 sq foot hanger here in Akron to house aircraft temporarily.
I'll help any way possible. We have a 89,000 sq foot hanger here in Akron to house aircraft temporarily.
Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:31 pm
Wendover Museum would be happy to help. We have 2 hangars big enough for B-17 / B-24 size aircraft and 1 hangar big enough for a B-29. they are currently empty or used for storage and could be easily used for storage. As I posted in another thread, since the museum has no aircraft belonging to the organization (other than a C-123) we could certainly donate some of the proceeds from entry fee to the museum or organization needing the emergency storage.
Tom P.
www.wendoverairbase.com
Tom P.
www.wendoverairbase.com
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:16 pm
One thing that you are forgetting Rob, would be the need for millions of dollars of infastructure upgrades and changes. The moving routes would have to be upgraded so that you coul move objects up to 24' wide and 24' tall without having to take down signs, move traffic lights, power lines, bypass low bridges and narrow traffic lanes.
I think we would have a much easier time learning to control the storms.
I think we would have a much easier time learning to control the storms.
Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:51 pm
I volunteer to HUREVAC any warbirds that need it, any time! 
Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:07 pm
I volunteer to HUREVAC any warbirds that need it, any time!
Whether it's needs it or not!
Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:19 pm
i think it's a great idea, but not to piss in anybody's bonfire, i think it is not a realistic idea from a logistical / time stand point. we all work, have lives, family, committments etc. i don't think anybody could get organized that quick, scramble to the area in jeopardy & haul ass in saving aviation history that quickly from mother f**king nature as she should be called after this year!! (here's to ya momma!!! 
) it's a noble thought, but i think the deck is thoroughly stacked against us warbirders in threatened natural areas, let alone coastal areas. there is no way of escaping hurricanes in these regions, but why can't we move these museums & treasures inland permanently to new locations?? while still at risk of storm damage, they would be avoiding storm surge & intense water damage from the ocean. warbird enthusiasts world wide could make it happen over time. how many museums are in ocean distance anyway??? the entire mess of the hurricanes of 2004 to the tsunami of december 2004, to the hurricane epidemic of recent raises a most serious question as how serious or correct is the global warming theory!!! regards, tom
) it's a noble thought, but i think the deck is thoroughly stacked against us warbirders in threatened natural areas, let alone coastal areas. there is no way of escaping hurricanes in these regions, but why can't we move these museums & treasures inland permanently to new locations?? while still at risk of storm damage, they would be avoiding storm surge & intense water damage from the ocean. warbird enthusiasts world wide could make it happen over time. how many museums are in ocean distance anyway??? the entire mess of the hurricanes of 2004 to the tsunami of december 2004, to the hurricane epidemic of recent raises a most serious question as how serious or correct is the global warming theory!!! regards, tom
Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:42 pm
[quote="tom d. friedman"] but why can't we move these museums & treasures inland permanently to new locations?? while still at risk of storm damage, they would be avoiding storm surge & intense water damage from the ocean. warbird enthusiasts world wide could make it happen over time. how many museums are in ocean distance anyway???
Lets face it. Airplane museums need to be located in areas where tourists will come to support them. It is easy to get myopic as a warbird enthusiast and not recognize how few true enthusiasts there are. If a museum relies on the diehards to survive...it won't. That is why you see museums located where tourists who want to see something different while on vacation will spend their money. Like it or not, museums need the general public to stay in business and that isn't going to happen in Nebraska.
Wherever you put a museum there will be some danger from nature. Whether it be a tornado, hurricane, fire, earthquake, etc. You can't protect from everything.
I think Rob's whole idea is flawed in any case. LSFM had a couple of days warning that the storm was headed their way. They finally were required to leave due to the mandatory evacuation. They could have flown more out if they would have had more time. How do you suppose they were going to have time to take them apart and truck them? It isn't going to happen.
It is great to have these ideas, but logistically, it could never happen.
Lets face it. Airplane museums need to be located in areas where tourists will come to support them. It is easy to get myopic as a warbird enthusiast and not recognize how few true enthusiasts there are. If a museum relies on the diehards to survive...it won't. That is why you see museums located where tourists who want to see something different while on vacation will spend their money. Like it or not, museums need the general public to stay in business and that isn't going to happen in Nebraska.
Wherever you put a museum there will be some danger from nature. Whether it be a tornado, hurricane, fire, earthquake, etc. You can't protect from everything.
I think Rob's whole idea is flawed in any case. LSFM had a couple of days warning that the storm was headed their way. They finally were required to leave due to the mandatory evacuation. They could have flown more out if they would have had more time. How do you suppose they were going to have time to take them apart and truck them? It isn't going to happen.
It is great to have these ideas, but logistically, it could never happen.
Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:57 pm
Gents, My humble opinion is "failure to plan is planning to fail". The idea has merit. Granted all may not be saved but airworthy aircraft could be easily moved. Look at the time available via satelite images. We need to focus on a small segment of history and a relatively small geographic area. How many pilots live in the south and coastal areas who could be the most rapid reaponse teams? How long does it take to make airworthy aircraft of this vintage gassed and ready to go? Not much I think. We may not save every one but as many as possible.
A tornado has a narrow focus and short lead time. These past two hurricanes have had days notice, local airports still operational. This really could be a very easy deal, all it takes is foresight and planning.
I am totally behind the program and although I couldn't fly a load of rubber dog sh*t anywhere, I'd be in on the organizational side in a heart beat!
A tornado has a narrow focus and short lead time. These past two hurricanes have had days notice, local airports still operational. This really could be a very easy deal, all it takes is foresight and planning.
I am totally behind the program and although I couldn't fly a load of rubber dog sh*t anywhere, I'd be in on the organizational side in a heart beat!
Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:14 am
everybody's replies & feedback has major merit as to their points, but on the grand scale, & feasibility after all i've read, the entire topic is irrelevelant i'm sorry to say. however, as aviation historians, everybody's heart is in the right place. thanks, guys, i think were all on the same page overall in the sense of spirit to our passion & interest.
Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:35 am
Tom, why give you up so easily? Dude, if this is important all it takes is a few to show leadership and get the job done. Go back in our "flying" history. Is this a tough question to handle compared to what they did in the 40's?
Come on guys, let's get real.
Here's the deal. All qualified pilots who would be willing to fill in during an emergency situation and could be assigned to ferry a plane out of a hazard zone, please post your name and aircraft you could pilot here on this board.
Then we (the group) can figure out how to get you to the city or airfield required and how to compensate for that. It starts with who can fly what.
This is not an insurmountable task. The odds are in our favor, the aircraft are few but valuable, the locations are limited, the talent pool large. Hell, given history, this could even qualify for FEMA fundage.
Step up boys!
Come on guys, let's get real.
Here's the deal. All qualified pilots who would be willing to fill in during an emergency situation and could be assigned to ferry a plane out of a hazard zone, please post your name and aircraft you could pilot here on this board.
Then we (the group) can figure out how to get you to the city or airfield required and how to compensate for that. It starts with who can fly what.
This is not an insurmountable task. The odds are in our favor, the aircraft are few but valuable, the locations are limited, the talent pool large. Hell, given history, this could even qualify for FEMA fundage.
Step up boys!
Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:13 am
And, IMHO, since you need to be qualified to fly a specific warbird, this would also mean that the museum / organization, could help those with the right amount of hours, time, and possibly $$, to get checked on any one or two aircraft, and to remain current on them, right?
Saludos,
Tulio
Saludos,
Tulio
Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:14 am
The pool of pilots does seem to be shinking. Insurance requirements are getting higher. If there was a known pool of pilots/crew, then it would be easier to contact these folks and the potential to move the aircraft higher. If you could contact all 12 of the pilots with ratings for your A/C then the chances that 1 could break free for a day to move the A/C would be much better. Still not a perfect solution, but at least a plan.
Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:30 am
oscardeuce wrote:The pool of pilots does seem to be shinking.
Or, alternately, train more pilots.
Slightly OT, but when are all the old-head warbird owners going to start bringing younger blood into the fray to keep that pool of qualified pilots stocked?
Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:30 am
Col. Rohr wrote:Warbird Pilot wrote:tom d. friedman wrote: Nebraska.
I think Rob's whole idea is flawed in any case. LSFM had a couple of days warning that the storm was headed their way. They finally were required to leave due to the mandatory evacuation. They could have flown more out if they would have had more time. How do you suppose they were going to have time to take them apart and truck them? It isn't going to happen.
It is great to have these ideas, but logistically, it could never happen.
Like you said they had time to get stuff moved but one of the problem is they didn't have pilots on hand this is one of my ideas that their is a National List it can be broken up by types and region. As for breaking apart aircraft like you said they had a few days to get ready yes some aircraft couldn't be moved but in LSFM case they had a few aircraft like the 38 and Bearcat that could have been made airworthy and sent out on a Ferry Permit. Look the more we talk about it the better we can come up with some sort of idea.
RER
Given that Ralph Royce has been in this business forever, I doubt that he needs a list to tell him who is current in the types of aircraft he flies. He already knows. As do the other operators who fly these type of aircraft. It is a VERY small community.
Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:41 am
i by know means threw in the towel. however, up to this point i didn't see any feasibility in the task. now, the pilot pool seems like a prudent plan. i'm sure many would donate their time in the spirit of things. guys like hinton could ferry out any types. let's clone him!! there is still a problem though....... what of any static display birds??? how will they be saved??? what about artifacts / memorabilia??? we all don't have semi trucks available at the drop of a hat, & even if we did how are you going to fight the traffic to get the stuff out with bumper to bumper evacuees hauling ass for high ground???