A-4 for sale: B'Stormers

[Tulio]

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHP ... 8349a5ccd8

A-4C SKYHAWK VMA-214 CHU LAI VIETNAM VETERAN • AVAILABLE • Our 501c3 museum is offering a very nice historic Skyhawk project. Serial number 148597 (N214AT) with 3334 TT. Engine excellent. Skyhawk 8597 served in Chu Lai with the VMA 225 from 61-66 and VMA-214 from 1966-70. Aircraft retired June 7 1971 from VMA-543. Stored/presevered AMARC until sale to Malasyia in 1984. Never exported, demilled, etc. USA corporate owned since private acquisition. Aircraft is complete with radar, transponder, auto pilot, etc. Guns and small parts missing as Grumman used surplus aircraft as donor for PTM A-4s overhauled in St. Augustine. Fuselage in spraylat and engine in 1010 preservation. Wiring is excellent. Located Tucson. $75K • Contact Greg Shepard - located Fort Myers, FL USA • Telephone: 239 332 3939 • Posted September 16, 2005
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It says de-milled, so, does this mean that the main-spar has been cut?

Saludos,


Tulio

[DanteC]

Never exported, demilled, etc.

It says de-milled, so, does this mean that the main-spar has been cut?

I read it as "Never exported or demilled, etc." Anyone else?

[RickH]

This is one of the A-4C/Ls that were IRANed by Grumman St. Augustine for Malaysia. They were supposed to be used for attrition/spares. They were flown out to MASDC ( now AMARC) and stored. The Malaysians took the TAs that were part of this State Dept deal and maybe some of the single seaters. The rest went throgh the standard spraylat preservation process. Somewhere along the way the Malaysians transferred them to a private storage yard. The only combat aircraft outside of the govt fence. They are complete and NOT demilled.

Now the kicker...they sat in the same place without being moved under guard (night watchman who lived in a trailer) for 26 years!!!!. Canopies were opened, spraylat deteriorated on the engine intakes and exhausts, pieces were missing, sheetmetal was damaged on some. The wheels had sunk into the dirt down to the axles.

The Malaysians stiffed Grumman for some of the work, the Malaysians sold them all to a American who gave them the down payment, they gave him the titles and he stiffed them on the balance. DoD and State got involved, many legal battles ensued. They were put up for a landlord lien auction. More legal battles were waged. They were sold as a package. More court fights ensued, the govt was still trying to block them from moving. US Marshall in Phoenix got involved swore that they would NEVER be released for flight. He lost !

Finally they were sold again to another guy a year or so ago and he started selling them for 25,000 a piece. They were finally moved to their respective new owners and I think they most are all gone from the storage yard.

Some are supposed to be going through a complete inspection and IRAN at Sabreliner for a group that intends to fly contract for DoD.

Big drawback on these aircraft is that they are J65 powered and there isn't much support for that engine. J-52 is not an option for these airframes.

[O.P.]

Me likeee.

Can this plane be restored to flight status by a regular person? Or is it too late, I guess thats the right word, or too new, I'm not sure, anyway, would it take an act of congress to get this to fly, like the Collings F4?

Are there any civilian A4's out there?

I think the newest privatety owned flying jet warbirds I can think of are F5's and some dragonfly's.

Why does the U.S. Marshall have anything to say about it? I know thats a dumb question because I can figure the answer myself. It still pisses me off.

I'll go ahead and beat a dead horse again, but it is silly that these birds haven't been released to the warbird community. The amout of resources required to keep airworthy and fly these planes precludes their use as a "Terrorist Weapon". More worthless feel good legislation from a bunch of feel bad numbskulls.

I just get bummed out knowing that in 20 years, there won't be any post ban (I think thats the term) aircraft flying, and the remainder in existence are corroded outside derelicts.

Back to good thinking,,,I want to have a small museum when I grow up that has an A6, A4, TA4, F4 (In Black Bunny Colors), F14, and some pre ban birds, Cougar, T-33, F80, ect. Save up donations and some beer money for 4 years or so, for gas money, and have a big Jet bird airshow twice a decade.

Ahhh, thats better........I'm in a good frame of mind to go to the Raiders game now....Ahhhhhh........Thanks WIX!

[RickH]

O.P. no Congressional action required.

What IS required are the same type of FAA hoops required for every other high performance turbine non certicated aircraft. Compared to what the warbird community is currently rebuilding to fly these are complete aircraft. There is little to no corrosion. They been in AZ for the last 30 years and had major inspections and repair prior to flying them out to the desert.

The jets operate in a very demanding environment so things that can be done with a recip warbird with an eye to operability may not be adviseable for the jet. Best policy is to get the manuals and work cards and carefully comply.

Bottom line is that it just takes MONEY and knowledge but it's not impossible.

[airnutz]

O.P., Jimbob informed us back in the H-34 thread some time back, of
the Collings TA-4 Skyhawk. Here is a link to it...

www.collingsfoundation.org/tx_ta-4skyhawk.htm

Can anyone shed any fresh light on the the TA-4's status?

[TimAPNY]

The TA-4 should be in Nashua NH this weekend with most of the Collings A/C (the F-4D hopfully will be doing flybys out of old Pease AFB.

I can't wait!

[wendovertom]

not being a wrench by any means - does anyone out there have a clue as to how much cash (est.) it would take to get something like this back in the air? Ryan? someone with Collins?

I guess that, comparitively, it is easier on the JP-4 than other jet warbirds out there.

Tom P.

[Cvairwerks]

Just for starting numbers, figure that you will have to invest at least $100K in support equipment just to maintain the a/c.

Jack set is going to set you back 10k
Huffer will be around 25-40K
Hydraulic cart 10K
Ground power unit 30K
Diesel genset to run the Hydraulic cart and the ground power unit 20K
Aft Fuselage dolly 5-20K
engine dolly 5-10K

and so on and so on....

[tom d. friedman]

as far as international negotiations go the entire thing sounds like a terminal case of screw thy neighbor!!

[airnutz]

Jimbob, stated back in April of his personal A-4 project, quote...

(I) "purchased an A-4 from a museum in Argentina and spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars before I discovered it would be
vitually cost prohibitive for anyone to restore that aircraft for flight.
It now serves as an enormously effective burn-barrel for $100 bills.
Jim Moriarty "

Jim went on to, as I read it, high-praise the Collings Foundation and
their resources as the most sensible way to approach flying restorations
of this caliber. After seeing the results of Jim's SUPERB UH-34 project,
I can just imagine what the A-4 woulda been like had he the deep-pockets
of Paul Allen etc. depth!

[wendovertom]

I didn't realize the A-4 needed a huffer. This is the main reason there are so few F-100s out there - too much of a pain to start when you need three people to help you get going. Oh well - it's still be a sweet ramp queen!

Tom P.

[Randy Haskin]

I didn't realize the A-4 needed a huffer. This is the main reason there are so few F-100s out there - too much of a pain to start when you need three people to help you get going. Oh well - it's still be a sweet ramp queen!

Same story with T-38s and F-5s.

[MX304]

Can the T-38 / F-5 hybrids be modified to self start? I would have sworn I saw Perot's 38 self start.

[wendovertom]

The huffer fortunately isn't a real big issue - the museum has access to a couple units. They come in real handy when starting F-104s!

Just an odd ball question - this means that every A-4 on a carrier had to go through being huffer started - was this done on deck or somewhere else?

Thanks,

Tom P.