TFC P-40F Replica

[DaveM2]

Seriously? Who gives a flying F WTF it is, looks like a P40, flies like a P40 & if some people don't like it then you are free to buy the darn thing & melt it down.

90% of the world (that is Joe Public) don't give a flying F-the other 8% who frequent aviation forums, study history and invest finances in 'vintage' aircraft care very much. The other 2% of aviation forum members have varying opinions.
I don't think any one denies or appreciates the efforts of bringing these types back from a bucket of bolts, however it is owed to future generations, whether historians/enthusiasts or buyers, that individual aircraft are documented as thoroughly as possible. An airframe 'is what it is' and shouldn't be made into something 'that it isn't', for either prestige or financial gain.
Whether original, reproduction or replica-let's appreciate their place in the world and the education and joy they bring - documenting said aircraft doesn't interfere with that in anyway IMHO. If an airframes history is transparent, open and honest there shouldn't be any conflict from any quarter -and instead of wasting time in pissing contests we could focus on what is in front of us without prejudice.
We have a Flug Werk 190 and a new production Yak-3 in our hangar-I am thrilled to see them every time I go into the office. I know exactly what they are and their histories, as does everyone else-no one pretends that they are the 'real deal' and enjoys them for what they represent. Would I prefer the 190 was the FHC example and the Yak-3 the Le Bourget NN machine? The answer is obvious (to me anyway) -as are the reasons.

This subject comes up time and time again on all forums and in real life -perhaps we should make one of these threads a sticky (there have been much better ones that this over the years, so perhaps a search is needed) and then refer the link next time it comes up-as surely as the sun does

Just a general observation and not directed at the P-40F specifically

Dave

[Iclo]

Finally, the most important is probably that one people put lots of him money to put this plane and lots of others plane in the sky, for him pleasure and the pleasure of so much people...

But of course the debate about real or replica is very interesting and will probably never end

[DaveBr]

So leaving aside the general replica/rebuild/newbuild discussion, what's the history of this actual aeroplane? Why is it's provenance in question?

I don't have any agenda, just interested, as I'll be seeing it for the next 4 days...

[mlenoch]

"Yes, Merlin cuts TBO in half!"

800 to 1000 hour TBO for the Merlin is not too uncommon.
However, the 'other' motors seldom appears at 99% of public viewing events. These owners will confide that motor issues prevent appearances. Their TBOs may be high, but their reliability is a concern. (And that is reliability in todays enviroment - not sure of how to judge reliability in the 1940s.)

[ My Merlin gets 300 to 500 hours till TBO. It is flown mostly at high power for airshow flight demos - akro & Heritage. I know the trade-off of high power vs. TBO, and thus make my choice to be flown a certain way. Additionally, my ability to appear at aerial events is very high, 14 to 20 events per summer, due to capable and realistic maintainability. Parts and services are very readily available and operate on a modern aircraft AOG basis.]

I would love to see more Allison powered aircraft at the shows I attend. They are attached to wonderfully historic airframes, regardless of their originallity, rebuilt, restored, recreated, replicated, what-ever aspects.

My 2 cents,
VL

[k5083]

Chino airshow goers are lucky that way. This year there were 8 Allisons flying, outnumbering the Merlins (a 9th, attached to the P-51A, did not fly but don't know why). Some years there are 10-12 Allisons in the air there. Always a treat. That said, I look forward to seeing/hearing a Merlin bolted to a P-40 someday.

August

[davidbray]

There are way too many classifications that we try to put warbirds into now... replica, reproduction, rebuild, restoration... Enough R's to make anyone sick to their stomach.

The problem with any community is that there are always going to be different definitions as to what is what. You find that in any hobby, job, association. For me, if it looks like a Mustang and sounds like a Mustang, by golly its a Mustang! I don't care if it was in Europe during WWII, I don't care if it was in the PTO, I just care that there are people who have the means to, and are willing despite the anoraks to fly them and share them with the public.

I am hoping that I can see some of these R-whatevers soon. I could use some Merlin music, or Alison music, or Pratt or Wright, or whatever. Its been a very sad week for me. Perhaps I'll catch some people passing through soon on their way to Oshkosh.

[RobC]

Since this thread bifurcated, I will comment on both. Regarding Merlin reliability, one has to be impressed with the beasts. Wherever I go, be it Reno, Valle, Chino, etc... there are always Mustangs running all day long. While there is significant preventive maintenance performed behind the scenes, on the day of the show, they run and run and run. They just add oil and gas and go some more.

On to the original topic: Yesterday, July 5, 2011 was a great day for humanity. Casey Anthony was acquitted and a geniune, authentic P-40 F made its first public appearance. Given enough time and effort, Truth and Justice will always prevail.

[lmritger]

Yesterday, July 5, 2011 was a great day for humanity. Casey Anthony was acquitted and a geniune, authentic P-40 F made its first public appearance. Given enough time and effort, Truth and Justice will always prevail.

[Dan K]

Yesterday, July 5, 2011 was a great day for humanity. Casey Anthony was acquitted and a geniune, authentic P-40 F made its first public appearance. Given enough time and effort, Truth and Justice will always prevail.

"Did I say 'bifurcated', sweetheart? I meant trifurcated."

[shepsair]

Wonder how the argument would look if the FHC decided to re-engine the Fw190A-5 with a Jumo to become a Fw190D-9.

Generally don't like mods that are not required. Also prefer to see paint schemes that are correct for the aircraft serial - not something made up for some famous battle or pilot.

I would have preferred to have seen Hurricane P3351 with a Merlin III marked up as 'K' of 73 Sqn but it is still carrying the correct markings.

Have always been for original authentic finishes and markings (where known).

Just my 2 cents worth.

MS

[ZRX61]

Obviously the true identify etc of this aircraft can never be known until someone posts the serial # of the carb...

[lmritger]

Obviously the true identify etc of this aircraft can never be known until someone posts the serial # of the carb...

Niiiiiice. Maybe we should get EDowning to go look for it! And FWIW, I agree wholeheartedly with Mark- my preference is to see aircraft restored back to their original configuration, or at least close to it. But that's all it is, just a preference... obviously in the case of this awesome job I'm plenty happy to see a P-40F from the Med, I'm just a little puzzled as to what the original ID of the airframe was, and why some horse trading didn't take place which would see the aforementioned F-to-E converted airframe swapped for this E-to-F. Probably had to do with timing and restoration progress... no big deal, just idle curiosity, and I want to make absolutely certain there is no misunderstanding here... that is one seriously beautiful aircraft.

Oh, and that's the word I was looking for earlier: it's a conversion.

Looking forward to Peter's photos today!

Lynn

[ZRX61]

Niiiiiice. Maybe we should get EDowning to go look for it!
Lynn

That's my standard answer these days when people ask how we can be sure such & such aircraft is actually what it appears to be.. which so far has resulted in two warbird owners I know being asked for the serial # of their carbs at airshows.... The expression on their faces when they get hit with that question is priceless

[Jesse C.]

Carb serial? Sure, #8675309, you got it?

[T33driver]

Like the TFC P-40F, there are other situations where the "replicas" vs "real" debate comes into play. IMO the line between "replica" and "real" can be blurry, come in all shapes and sizes and while some things in this world are not 100% authentic per the rivet counters, they still merit our attention and admiration.