Mid-air at Duxford, Pilots ok

[bipe215]

I didn't know a P-51 could decelerate that quickly.

Steve

[Obergrafeter]

Not belly to belly but bad enough!

[Steve Nelson]

I just found out a couple days ago that one of the civilian aerobatic planes at our airshow here last weekend lost an aileron in flight. Fortunately the pilot was able to land safely. Actual damage must have been minor, as I watched him perform the next day.

There are a couple of acts (one I've seen is a Taylorcraft) that have that happen deliberately.

Ryan

Judging by some pics I saw from today's Geneseo show on Facebook, you're correct about the Taylorcraft, which "loses" an aileron as part of the "drunk farmer" comedy act. The one I heard about here in Battle Creek (and saw some pics of) was (I think) an Extra 300 or something similar.

Here's a link to the pics (scroll all the way down): http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=233540

Anyway, back to the topic at hand..sorry to hijack the thread.

SN

[JägerMarty]

What altitude was the bailout?
Glad the pilots are ok

[Matt Gunsch]

a fine example of if you can't see your lead, you need to be somewhere where you can. This accident and the Red Barons accident in FL are perfect examples.

[Randy Haskin]

Holy smokes!

Formation flying is serious business, folks, and this is precisely why.

That video should be required viewing for all formation pilots...with particular focus toward deconfliction responsibilities between flight leads and wingmen when maneuvering (like the pitch up/pitch out being performed). I know I'm going to show it to my USAF T-38 students when we're in the initial formation phase in the future...

Post collision, looks like some good flying on the part of both pilots. Extremely quick actions on the part of the Mustang pilot to bail out in that amount of time, too!

As has been said, metal can be replaced but people can't. Just like with Liberty Belle, this one is a 'happy ending' IMHO.

[Obergrafeter]

Not to be picky but thats an Interstate that does the departing aileron not a Taylorcraft.

[Dan K]

Legends video from another angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OynscjUHzxg

[RyanShort1]

Not to be picky but thats an Interstate that does the departing aileron not a Taylorcraft.

Yeah, that's Kent Pietsch (spelling?) and the Interstate for sure. For some reason I thought I saw a Taylorcraft do it, too, but I could be wrong for sure. The pictures of that Extra were amazing... glad he walked away from it.

Ryan

[old iron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OynscjUHzxg

It does not look to me like the wingtips touched. Could the Skyraider wing have been clipped by the Mustang tail?

[Matt Gunsch]

The ADs rt wing hit the belly of the Mustang, just aft of the doghouse, while the AD was in a climbing left turn. When they hit, it caused the Mustang to go from climbing turn, nose high attitude positive G loading, to a nose down negative G load almost instantly. Shows how tough the 51 was in that it's wing was still in one piece after the loads it just went thru, it was also amazing the guy was able to get out in that short amount of time.

[51fixer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OynscjUHzxg

It does not look to me like the wingtips touched. Could the Skyraider wing have been clipped by the Mustang tail?

The AD did the clipping, not the P-51.
Rule #1 always keep your aircraft under control so as not to hit anyone else.
Other Rule #1- Never lose sight of #1 if you are #2.
Flights of different types of aircraft as a formation present their own challenges. The difference in mass, climb, HP and sight lines should be taken into account.
Also as the Balbo Formation breaks into Elements and then the elements break for landing the speeds aren't really high, turns are tight and you keep circuit lower in altitude to keep the action near the crowd and to enable landing recovery to go quick.
Even as you break to land you have the pitch ups to set spacing for the landing approach but again your not doing so to gain alot of altitude as you would in a normal approach.
The AD was using a different profile in the pull and climb than the lead was.
He either lost sight of the lead and/or applied pull forces on the controls that were way to aggressive for the situation.
This is now going to a part of many briefs and training programs. What a way to become a training aid.

[Tailspin Turtle]

Based on a couple of close looks at one of the videos: After impact and the loss of a good part of the right wing, the Skyraider winds up inverted and rolling right. By skill and/or luck, the pilot completes the roll and winds up on downwind for the runway, albeit a bit low.

[WallyB]

Other Rule #1- Never lose sight of #1 if you are #2.

In a nutshell.

The AD was using a different profile in the pull and climb than the lead was.
He either lost sight of the lead and/or applied pull forces on the controls that were way to aggressive for the situation.

Watched both videos but I still can't figure out who did what. I think the AD pilot did see the P-51D before the collision and tried to roll away but obviously wasn't expecting it to be there. Disparate speeds as suggested ?

[the330thbg]

awesome, no one hurt!