Mid-air at Duxford, Pilots ok

[Randy Haskin]

Several folks have stated that the AD pilot should not have lost sight of the Mustang - that's utter silliness, the AD's pilot head immediately went forward as he is the temporary flight lead and responsible for clearing the flight path as soon as the Mustang pulled. If you can't find the preceding aircraft, knock it off.

I was not saying that the Skyraider pilot had to physically keep his eyes on the Mustang the entire time. Of course not -- looking away from your lead to scan another portion of the sky isn't the same as being 'blind'. In fact, there are many formation positions outside of close/fingertip where I specifically WANT my wingman to look somewhere other than lead's aircraft, clearing for the formation, looking for traffic/threats, etc.

Awareness of where your flightmate is by other means (contractual deconfliction, procedural deconfliction, use of radio for SA, etc) is perfectly acceptable in place of physically having your eyeballs on the other aircraft. There are plenty of times where aircraft in a formation can be completely detached from one another and performing thier own maneuvering, and the wingman is STILL responsible for deconfliction (all types of multi-aircraft dogfights fall into this category, plus formation operations on a bombing range, etc). That does not in any way mean that once the Mustang pulled up and away that the Skyraider was no longer responsible for his formation contract. Formations aren't split up in the break unless specifically briefed as such. They're still very much responsible for lead and wing contracts until the engines are shut down in the parking area.

While you're correct that once he had the 'nav lead' of the #3 aircraft, that he was *also* responsible for clearing his flight path for the two remaining aircraft, that doesn't alleviate him of that formation responsibility to know where his lead is AND avoid becoming a conflict (as well as his basic responsibility of clearing his own flight path).

[Randy Haskin]

The AD may have picked up the trailing aircraft on downwind from the previous flight. Spacing would have appeared excessive, which would have encouraged the AD pilot to keep power on and tighten his turn.

This is the famous 'coffin corner' (one of the two instances that the term is used, at least) that is a high threat when operating in a formation at the bombing range. After performing your own bombing pass, you reacquire the preceding aircraft to establish proper spacing.

If the aircraft in front of you hasn't maneuvered predictably, it may not actually be the aircraft directly preceding you in line that you see. When you adjust your flightpath on crosswind to adjust your spacing with that aircraft on downwind, the ACTUAL aircraft preceding you is under your belly, and you will potentially both arrive on the downwind leg at the same place at the same time.

[brucev]

watching the clip on FlyingFilm is fascinating, and that mustang pilot is one quick thinking level headed dude.

4 secs after the impact the canopy is jettisoned

14 secs after impact the pilot is out

18 secs after impact the aircraft hits the ground

I can't imagine being able to react that fast, an imapct like that has to be a horrible jolt followed by several seconds of WTF thinking but that pilot obviously wasn't disorientated in the least.

[flyride]

Once (the Skyraider) had the 'nav lead' of the #3 aircraft, that he was *also* responsible for clearing his flight path for the two remaining aircraft, that doesn't alleviate him of that formation responsibility to know where his lead is AND avoid becoming a conflict (as well as his basic responsibility of clearing his own flight path).

Well said.

[Bradburger]

Interview with Rob Davies (Mustang pilot) here: -

http://www.itv.com/anglia/pilot-speaks- ... rash48488/

Cheers

Paul

[Django]

That sucks... 10 minutes to load to get a message saying it can only be viewed in the UK.

Interview with Rob Davies (Mustang pilot) here: -

http://www.itv.com/anglia/pilot-speaks- ... rash48488/

Cheers

Paul

[Bear]

That sucks... 10 minutes to load to get a message saying it can only be viewed in the UK. :

Same thing here Chad. Bummer.

[cluvara]

That sucks... 10 minutes to load to get a message saying it can only be viewed in the UK. :

Same thing here Chad. Bummer.

Interview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQsJS7z ... e=youtu.be

[Bradburger]

That sucks... 10 minutes to load to get a message saying it can only be viewed in the UK.

Interview with Rob Davies (Mustang pilot) here: -

http://www.itv.com/anglia/pilot-speaks- ... rash48488/

Cheers

Paul

My apologies.

Should have thought of that!

Cheers

Paul

Last edited by Bradburger on Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Bear]

Interview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQsJS7z ... e=youtu.be

Thanks!

[Chappie]

I hate to break it to you but it is not a requirement to be a pilot to know things about formation flying.

Actually, yes it is. The important things.

I agree. I'm a private pilot with about 300 hours and 20-some of aerobatics. I've been going to airshows all my life and thought formation flying looked somewhat difficult. Well...two years ago I started flying on FAST formation flights as a GIB/photographer (about 25 hours to date) and its was an eye opening experience. I was stunned at how busy a pilot is when flying in close formation. Someone can sit down and explain what goes on during wing-work but until you see it from inside the cockpit you just won't "get it".

Chappie

[Lightjug]

Wow, I am just stunned. I attended Legends Saturday, spent the day in London Sunday and all of Monday getting home. Just found out about BBD now; sooooo glad that no one was hurt.

[Ztex]

Interview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQsJS7z ... e=youtu.be

I am always amazed at the understated ways of British speech.... @ 1:37 of the video... "I got out at extremely low level, but then the motivation was extremely high... " Damned skinny the motivation was extremely high!

[Dave Hadfield]

I'll bet he lost his helmet cord.

Dave

[Chappie]

Wow. Fascinating to hear the story right from Mr Davies.

Slighty off topic: Mmm..Don't you just love a female British accent?


Chappie