P-51D Miss America lands gear-up

[snj-5]

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events01/media/22_991R.txt

Bela P. Havasreti

[Jack Cook]

How can they say minor. Engine, prop, doghouse yada yada yada

[Matt Gunsch]

How can they say minor. Engine, prop, doghouse yada yada yada

It is minor because they don't have to unbolt the data plate to repair it............

[mustanglover]

Found this terrible video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ykDZXiY6M

Only damage I see is the RH inner gear door.

[mustangdriver]

Not the first time this airplane has done this. Oddly enough I think it bellied in on 9/11. Not sure which year though.

[Jack Cook]

Good god there's 60 seconds of my life I'll never get back

[Speedy]

I think it's just bad karma. The Dr. changed the paint scheme several years ago...and Howie is somewhere in the back room steaming over it.....

[MX304]

If that video is correct, then that was not a gear up landing.....

[Jack Cook]

A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one

[MX304]

A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one

Normally I would agree 100% but I have never seen the NTSB list a belly landing as an "incident" with the damage listed as "minor". Just seems weird..

[jet1]

A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one

Normally I would agree 100% but I have never seen the NTSB list a belly landing as an "incident" with the damage listed as "minor". Just seems weird..

I agree incident would be minor damage IE one main gear failure not both which would be bad but not REALLY bad

[sdennison]

Strange video. Star Wars-esqe to explain a bad landing? How about the facts?

[mrhenniger]

That is a real shame. I was looking forward to seeing M.A. at Reno. Last year I was a complete Reno newbie. As Miss America was turning laps during a race a lady from the crew happened to be standing close by and gave me a running commentary of what was going on. I didn't really appreciate the nuances but after that race I had a much better understanding and walked away that feeling educated.

My condolences to the crew. Thank you for your time at Reno. My best wishes go to you in getting Miss America back in the air.

Regards,

Mike

[Jack Cook]

The words "minor damage" are always open to interpretation

[CAPFlyer]

I'm sorry guys, but "Minor" damage isn't open to interpretation. Both the FAA and NTSB have pretty clear guidelines on how damage is classified. FAA Order 8020.11C is the current version of the regulation that both the FAA and NTSB use as their guideline.

d. Aircraft Accident - an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes
place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and until such time as
all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in
which the aircraft receives substantial damage. All aspects of the exceptions to substantial damage
(see "Substantial Damage") should be considered before making a final substantial damage
determination that would classify the occurrence as an accident.

i. Destroyed Aircraft - an aircraft damaged to the extent that it would be impracticable to return
the aircraft to an airworthy condition.

r. Incident - an occurrence other than an accident associated with the operation of an aircraft,
which affects or could affect the safety of operations.

ff. Substantial Damage - damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength,
performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or
replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one
engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or
fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps,
engine accessories, brakes, or wing tips are not considered substantial damage for the purpose of this
order.

Basically, unless the wing spar or flight surfaces are seriously damaged to require repair or replacement, damage is not "Substantial". Since the only 3 levels of damage are "Minor", "Substantial", and "Destroyed", then by definition, the accident resulted in "Minor" damage. The FAA and NTSB never have, and probably never will, use cost as a determination of how serious an accident or the damage caused by it is for the exact reason you stated Jack. Then again, cost scales pretty directly with the airplane. I couldn't afford out of pocket to fix a Cessna if, God Forbid, I happened to ding it anymore than many Warbird owners can really afford to fix their airplane. I'll guarantee you that most airlines can't just fix a dinged aircraft out of pocket either. That's why we have hull insurance and we all try to do the damnedest to make sure that if something fails, it's a mechanical failure that we couldn't have prevented and we deal with it as it comes.