Warbird Information Exchange

New Red Tails trailer just released:

http://www.mtv.com/videos/movie-trailer ... ails.jhtml

Opinions?

Great subject.

On the rest I'll hold my tongue because it could be interpreted as unnecessary CGI-bashing.

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

Love the 'hammerhead' in the virtual P-51!

LOL

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S.

I've seen Miss America do one with Bud Granley, but that pull/pull humpty in such a short distance is really intriguing!
And the roll rate of those P-40's seem to be even more improved of those shown in Pearl Harbor!!!!
Chris...

I like the fact that it tells a new generation of people what the P-51 and the men did. On that note, the computer generated stuff looks terrible. How tough is it to have maybe 8-10 P-51's fly in for a movie? Seeing as there's so many of them around it shouldn't be that tough. When in doubt, use the REAL planes. Do the men and planes justice and do the movie as authentic as possible. Just me babbling about cgi.

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Great Subject, I'll just come out and say that since I'm "DINO-SCHOOL"" I've come to accept the fact that the only way to get adults & young people to see a war film is to make it "Video Like" in the action department . Fly boys & Pearl H. could be seen with people's Thumbs going crazy . Guess I'll go to Lackland and watch the clouds roll across the P-51h, P-63, P-47n, P-82, B-17, Rep. B-24, B25, A-26........ Take Care, and look down once in a while , I found a folded $20.00 the other day...any claims?? , Anthony

Hi Frank;
I'm with you on the real aircraft vs CGI stuff, but planes are getting more expensive to operate and do things for hire like films. Average Mustangs go from about $4,500-$7,000 just for an appearance fee for a two day air show. When you add fuel, rooms cars etc. it goes up a bit more.

Now I don't know the going day rate is for a P-51, pilot and mechanic to be on site, in a foreign country, to be used in a film, but my guess it's at least the air show weekend rate FOR A DAY.
Now this was filmed in Europe, are there 10 P-51's flying in Europe today? I don't think so, so to fly more in from the U.S, like the 3 B-17's in 1989 for "Memphis Belle", now becomes prohibitive budget wise.

For three weeks work you're looking at well over 100K per aircraft. Not counting fuel, lodging etc.

In 2005, we were averaging $10K per Corsair for "Corsairs Over Connecticut". They were averaged as a total, but for two days, if we got the original nine Corsairs we booked, it would've been almost $100K for nine aircraft for two days. This stuff adds up quickly and when Hollywood calls, everybody tacks on even more.

I'm afraid CGI is here to stay and the real aircraft will become just set dressing for ground shots.
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

Ya, when you only have a 75 to 100 Million to work with you gotta save those nickles for important stuff like make up and drinks.

There were a few real planes (a couple P-51s, B-17G "Pink Lady" and a C-47) used for the filming of "Red Tails", but not for any of the combat scenes. They were mostly just for background, taxiing, takeoffs, landings, flybys, etc. I don't think the owners of those planes would want to take then though the high-speed, high-gee maneuvers that were typical of combat. It would put far too much stress and wear on the airframes and engines, not to mention the added potential for an accident.

CGI is here to stay whether we like it or not. Some of the scenes in the trailer seem pretty lifelike while others (the hammerhead/Kobra/flip/Bat-turn done by the P-51) are almost too much to bear. I think if people give good, constructive feedback when they see things like this, movie makers will eventually take notice and try to adjust.

In this case, I think Lucas has a well-deserved reputation for cluttering up scenes with CGI, making them as fast-paced and as dense with objects and effects as possible. One only has to look at his "upgrade" of the original STAR WARS where the main changes were simply putting more stuff in the background to distract you.

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Sometimes the film people have unrealistic expectations on the availability and costs of operating aircraft. I used to volunteer for the Collings Foundation and Bob Collings would come in on Saturdays to help out and keep us informed. So years ago there was talk of a Red Tails movie and they wanted his B-24 for it. The film people wanted it all through the height of the Foundations already booked season and offered a fraction of what it cost to operate per hour. Apparently the film people lost interest very quickly when apprised of the real operating costs.

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

All you need to do is look at the modern movie, “Valkyrie” and see that real airplanes don’t draw the eye right to themselves. According to this link, some of the planes were digitally done, but were cloned from existing shots. So they’re real airplanes, just placed into the scene more than once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_(film)#Visual_effects

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

Hi Jerry,
Good to hear from you. I actually didnt know it was filmed overseas. Of course that puts my outlook on getting real mustangs into a different perspective. I thought it was done in Hollywood. I think we all know here that it's not real and upsets some of us because it just doesn't do the real aircraft justice. I do understand the cost measures for the airshow circut but when Hollywood is willing to pay 7 figures for an actor or their budget is millions, the last thing to be cut is the actual aircraft.

Now, On that note Jerry..........I heard that Stratford is looking to break the record for Corsairs in the air next year at the airshow. You wouldn't happen to be involved in this now would you?????

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Actually, If a new sponsor doesn't magically appear in the next month, there won't be a show next May in Stratford.
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

Well, let's hope for the best and with you behind the wheel, i know you can pull it off! Maybe continue with the collings foundation for that weekend and a couple from Long Island? Including some from the CASM. That would make a nice show.

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

CGI doesn't just allow filmmakers an endless supply of airplanes, it gives them the freedom to film them from otherwise impossible angles. I like what can be done with CGI, and for appearances, this is amazing. It is only the physics that fall apart. I keep hoping that, once Hollywood has reached the point where they can reproduce anything with lifelike fidelity using CGI (and they are mighty close), they will turn their attention to improving the physics. It is as much a barrier to the suspension of disbelief as the visuals.

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What is red, furry and on your six?