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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:14 am 
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Centennial of Naval Aviation aircrafts which are painted in special heritage scheme are not likely to last too much longer if what is below is typical of the personnel assigned to these operations......

When some US Navy personnel were told of some of the aircraft through out the US Navy fleet would be repainted into heritage colours, it turns out that some were totally against the concept.

They knew it would be more work for the squadron maintainers to deal with.
Some US Navy personnel say it was bad enough even ONE aircraft was painted up for the 100yr anniversary.

The other problem is each aircraft looks nice but they have to take way to much time taking care of it eg keeping them clean more often, the aircrafts are not allowed to do tactical flights or even fly low over water during operations.

It looks like some US Navy personnel are very eager to see the 100th yr markings gone. They can't wait to get rid of the aircrafts or have them striped and repainted.

How do you warbird enthusiasts feel about this heritage issue been spoken like this within the US Navy .?....poor lack of modern day understanding of where they have come from? or is it legimate reasons to see the schemes go?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:24 am 
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I believe the person responsible for choosing the schemes has posted here in the past, so I'd love to hear his input.

As far as I understand it the schemes are going to be phased out during the aircrafts maintenance cycles. (Next time they are due for paint).

I cant imagine it being all that difficult to keep two dozen aircraft wearing fresh paint and attending airshows in clean condition. It cant be that much more difficult to maintain a blue F-18 versus a grey F-18. :roll:

As for some people being opposed to it, you cannot please everyone, there are some people that will always groan and complain. The centennial schemes were done to celebrate Naval aviation heritage with the public, not please every single person that has to work with the aircraft. I think the centennial schemes were a great idea and enjoy seeing them. The Navy did not have to go out of their way to repaint these aircraft so I think it was a very nice gesture to share these heritage planes with the public.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:12 am 
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I'm sure the maintainers have a lot to do, so some of the extra cleaning the schemes require to look nice for displays might be a hassle.
But, probably no worse than if your regular CO is a spick & span nut.

It would be nice to see the USAF do something similar (unlike most NATO countries, they've never gone for special schemes for events or anniversaries)...but they won't. Heck even putting one "Let's Roll" decal on one plane from each wing seemed to be a hassle for them.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:12 pm 
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It's kind of sad to see that some have no sense of, nor regard for, the heritage and traditions and sacrifices that today allow them to whine and moan about maintaining a paint job on a single aircraft.

Makes me wonder if they need to be burped or changed!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Just exactly WHERE did you get this information on U.S. Navy personnel opinions regarding the CoNA repaints Liberator? Without sources or even mention as to where you MAY have seen such complaints, your comments are nothing more than hearsay. I don't see the point in this topic other than trolling honestly... but then again, you've done that before under your many different usernames, so I am not surprised.

Yes, I can imagine that a repainted airframe that doesn't match the rest of a particular squadron might be a little bit more of a challenge to maintain cosmetically than the others... I mean, heaven forbid you might have to have a few other canisters of touch-up paint in stock than the traditional low-vis paint. Oh yes, I also forgot that it's almost impossibly difficult to paint replacement inspection covers and airframe parts to match... I am sure crew chiefs are lined up to complain *sarcasm*.

If there are any complaints, I am pretty sure that they are a very small percentage. I am pretty confident that the vast majority of proud servicemen and women that are currently serving in the United States Navy are honored to commemorate their 100th year anniversary and the paint schemes representing their history are a matter of pride for them. I would bet that the crews assigned to the retro aircraft are very happy to fly, maintain and display them and honored with the opportunity to do so. It's like the units taking part in the NATO Tiger Meet... I highly doubt that any of those crews complain about upkeeping their tiger schemes either.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:39 pm 
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I don't doubt this story. When our squadron was tasked with the base commanders aircraft it became a pain. You had to wear special coveralls while working on the aircraft so as not to "dirty the paint" and there were a boatload more wash jobs and relube jobs than a standard F-111. Yes in a way I CAN see their point.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:16 pm 
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As a retired maintainer for Uncle Sam's canoe club, I can see both sides to this issue. It will all depend on the attitude of the entire change of command, not just the maintainers. For years every bird in the flock was painted in big and bold colors. Then we went to the subdued tactic paint schemes, darn if this whining and crying over a few airframes doesn't sound the same as those discussions back in the 80's. So there was a compromise, all the birds went tactical except the lead bird for each squadron, '00' or the CAG bird, which was left in a high visability scheme and those became the 'show' birds.
Maintaining any airframe in the salty air enviroment that these planes fly in is hard enough without having to deal with special paint jobs. I would much rather have my kids grooming the electronics or tweaking the engines then worrying about ensuring that the show bird was looking it's best. If they aren't working on the bird to maintain it's combat readiness, then I want them resting as operations on a carrier does not compare to your local airport. That said a lot of the special paint jobs are training aircraft and those airframes are mostly supported by civilian contractors. This is to include the Blues. So I would be willing to bet that it is more a struggle by the bean counters to balance the checkbook then a question of desire to remember their history.
Remembering history was never a big part of the Navy's mentality, it was up jets off the pointy end and a safe return. It has only been in the last 10 years that the Navy has started to celebrate its greatest victory at Midway. What is done to celebrate those historic days changes from command to command, just like the like and dislike of special paint schemes.
So give the kids out there ,doing as he/she is told, a break, they don't lead the parade but are at the end of the whip that just jerks them around.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:12 pm 
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In my job capacity I have a LOT of contact with folks at Naval Air Station
Pensacola and some with NAS Meridian, MS. The folks I've talked with
have enormous enthuiasm for the CONA birds and what they represent.
I am fortunate to know a number of student Naval Aviators that have flown
them at Corpus, Meridian, JAX, and Vance. They have been so popular
there is actually competition to fly the CONA birds. I receive pix all the
time with comments like, "Look Owen, I got to fly a CONA bird! This
one represents the Battle of Midway".

I don't doubt that somebody doesn't like 'em. There is always someone
that will complain. Without question, the future of Naval Aviation that I
know are both pleased and enthuiastic. And I know some Marines that
are planning for their Centennial next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:24 pm 
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I'd like to see a source for that statement also, during our many travels with the replica Curtiss Pusher almost all of the Navy people we've met or dealt with have been thrilled about the CONA stuff. Extra effort doesn't seem to be a problem, when we were at NAS Norfolk last fall the maintanence guys came in on thier days off to build a cradle to lift the Curtiss onto the USS GWH Bush. The only exceptions seem to be some of the higher ups who are more interested in fancy banquets than real airplanes, but they don't have anything to do with taking care of the CONA paint scheme birds.
The people at NAS Norfolk and at Pax River were especially terrific to work with, and we're really looking forward to the show at Pax next weekend-


(and tell the Marines to call us for next year...)



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:51 pm 
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No one really daid they didn't like them it's they are a pain due to all the "extra" items you must do when it comes to their paint jobs. As I said, I've been there too with wing kings airplanes prepping for airshows and the like.

Scott

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:41 pm 
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I can tell you from experience that some of our folks in the military are a disgrace and nothing more then punks. My brother in law and his outfit are always getting busted for drugs, etc. And he even got in big trouble for getting drunk and waving his gun around. His room mate just OD'ed. It's very sad our country is loosing every bit of moral respectfulness. And he is in the Marines and is still a trouble maker. As is most of his outfit apparently.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Nathan wrote:
I can tell you from experience that some of our folks in the military are a disgrace and nothing more then punks. My brother in law and his outfit are always getting busted for drugs, etc. And he even got in big trouble for getting drunk and waving his gun around. His room mate just OD'ed. It's very sad our country is loosing every bit of moral respectfulness. And he is in the Marines and is still a trouble maker. As is most of his outfit apparently.



That's few and far between. I KNOW from experience from being in and being deployed that there are a BOATLOAD of fine men and women in our military and yes there are a few bad apples as there always are. SO, just make sure you don't start lumping all the military into a fews arena due to those fews actions.

Scott

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Nathan wrote:
I can tell you from experience that some of our folks in the military are a disgrace and nothing more then punks. My brother in law and his outfit are always getting busted for drugs, etc. And he even got in big trouble for getting drunk and waving his gun around. His room mate just OD'ed. It's very sad our country is loosing every bit of moral respectfulness. And he is in the Marines and is still a trouble maker. As is most of his outfit apparently.


What on earth does this have to do with the subject of this thread? And what the heck is moral respectfulness?

I know far more sorry civilians than sorry military folks, although I will admit that we do have some. But even those disgraceful people that you know in the military stepped up to the plate to serve. That's more than a lot of people have done for their country. Don't worry though, those disgraceful punks will get kicked out of the military if they are as sorry as you say they are. On most occasions, military justice is a beautiful thing. As far as getting in trouble goes, well here's a dirty little secret. I've been in trouble over the years, many times, as have most of the people I've flown with. It's simply a matter of being a human. Some of us get in trouble. Some more than others. Come to think about it, I got in some trouble before I ever joined up. Perish the thought! . It's got not a darn thing to do with being military or not. I call it "boys will be boys". Some for longer than others, some will grow out of it, some never will and some boys will never become men.

I wish I had $10 for every person I know in the Air Force that has gotten drunk and stupid over the years. I'd buy you that P-40 you want so bad

While I'm here, I'd be willing to bet that a very small percentage of US military, regardless of their branch of service, give a rat's rear end about anything that happened prior to last week. Mostly because it doesn't matter to them. It doesn't apply to them and it doesn't have any affect on them. I spent all day watching people walk through my C-17 at the Offutt AFB airshow. I was amazed at the lack of active duty USAF personel who couldn't identify what kind of plane they were standing in. It's the AIR FORCE! Most of these people were young, one or two stripe airmen and they haven't been in very long. But still, we only have about 20 different models of airplanes in the inventory today. The C-17 is pretty well known and doesn't even look similar to anything else we have. But for whatever reason, active military people can't identify it! Very few in the Air Force care about the history of the Air Force today and it's because we have fads instead of traditions. It's only going to get worse.

I'm still amazed by the number of loadmasters and pilots I've flown with over the years that couldn't identify the C-124 Globemaster II, even though they drove by it everyday leaving the base at Charleston. It's the grandfather and namesake of our airplane and they don't even know what it is! But all that is okay because no matter what I would prefer, there is no requriement to even know that the military has a history in order to join.

Based on what I've seen over the last nearly 20yrs, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if nobody in the Navy is excited about doing anything with the CONA stuff. Except of course for the crews that get to go to the airshows and have a good time. For the others that do the work and get none of the limelight, the entire program is probably nothing more than a pain in the ass. Other than the few of us that are lucky enough to work the airshow circuit in the USAF, very few care about the planes, the history or tradition.

One last thing.

The Inspector wrote:
It's kind of sad to see that some have no sense of, nor regard for, the heritage and traditions and sacrifices that today allow them to whine and moan about maintaining a paint job on a single aircraft.

Makes me wonder if they need to be burped or changed!


They don't need to be burped or changed. They need to be allowed to do their job, more with less, without having more extra duties piled on top of them, including showboating for other people's glory. I'd be willing to bet that their job description has nothing to say about entertaining the public with historic paint jobs. Quite simply, they have other things to do and I doubt this is high on their priority list. As far as them having no sense of sacrifice, well, I hardly think you are in any position to question what anybody in the military has sacrificed. Regardless of how little you might think of them.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Thank you Brad. For your words and your service.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:51 pm 
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I personally think the paint jobs are cool. However, I have a little story that kind of emphasizes my bottom line. We took a Skypig to an airshow once. It was a haze-grey bird with lots of touch up spots on it that didn't quite match. Someone came up and I overheard "you mean, you go to war in THAT?"

Yeah, we go to war in THAT. THIS is a real warbird. It's a workhorse. It's function over form to take it to the bad guy.

That shiny P-51 over there? VERY COOL airplane...but that's not what they looked like when THEY were real warbirds either. They were a little on the dirty and worn side too.

Like Brad, I served with many who had no knowledge or appreciation for Naval Aviation history. Couldn't have cared less what our squadron patch meant, why it said what it said, why our squadron name was what it was. BUT THAT DIDN'T MAKE THEM ANY LESS A SAILOR THAN THE NEXT. A geek like me (or Jack, since he are one too) appreciates that kind of stuff, just like I appreciate the Anniversary paint jobs. But bottom line, our job isn't to look pretty.

Just my .02.

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