This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Topic locked

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:33 pm

Is it a matter of degree?

If the paint job is absolutely perfect, to the correct station, over the right rivet, the accurate and correct shade of blue / white / red/ silver, or whatever color, then the honor paid to those who served, is at its maximum expression?

If there are glitches, a quarter of an inch off here or there, the wrong markings, the size of the insignia not 100%, then the owner / restorer, is not interested in honoring them just the same?

So, those who re-enact, if they are not wearing the proper type of socks, underwear, have long hair, or the angle on their insignia is wrong...are they dishonoring those they purport to represent?

I believe that we have taken this matter way too far. I also believe that not everyone who is flying a restored bomber / fighter / trainer, etc., has as their topmost priority, to honor those to serve, but rather, to preserve a piece of history and to keep it flying. Yes, the showing it, the history lessons, and the honoring of those who have served, is not diminished one iota in my mind, if the markings are not accurate.

Just ask a veteran from WW-II if he is offended.

Just my two centavos worth.


Tulio

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:07 am

I still don't care about the paint :supz:

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:29 am

I'm sorry, but neither "Kermit Weeks on a crutch!" or "By the hydraulic fluid of Stephen Grey's Bearcat!" works for me as a good blaspheme after hitting my thumb with a hammer. Maybe it needs work. Like my thumb, after the testing of this theory. :lol:

But this definitely gets the award of the most unintentionally revealing thread for some time.

Regards,

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 am

Yup, I'm about sick-up and fed of this thread as well...guess I'll put it on ignore

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:14 am

When someone indirectly referred to warbird owners as gods, I just assumed that it must mean that all wix posters must be dyslexic.

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:13 am

Huh? Bark! Bark! Bark! Paint ain't forever...nice to see and hear 'em flyin'! :wink:

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:45 am

JDK and EDowning summed it up well.

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:18 am

Long story short...the info is out there on markings and paint schemes for these warbirds. It's a standard. We need to tell history correctly. Why do the accurate paint and markings croud always gets looked down on wix? Isn't being interested in warbirds also mean you are interested in the history? (This is NOT bashing warbird owners). It's discussing a standard that should be put into place. I can assure you some other forums would totally have a hernia if people did not care about paint and markings i.e. this forum has some niches.. lol

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:24 am

I'm sticking to my green landing gear door policy!!
VL :wink:

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:39 am

N3Njeff wrote:It's the owners wish to fly a biplane that was a cheap knock off from the era well let them write the check. :)


Huh....and I always thought the N3N was just a cheap knockoff of the Stearman.

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 am

vlado wrote:I'm sticking to my green landing gear door policy!!
VL :wink:

:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz: I like that Vlado...I lost my coffee :drink3:

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:10 pm

Nathan wrote:Long story short...the info is out there on markings and paint schemes for these warbirds. It's a standard. We need to tell history correctly. Why do the accurate paint and markings croud always gets looked down on wix? Isn't being interested in warbirds also mean you are interested in the history? (This is NOT bashing warbird owners). It's discussing a standard that should be put into place. I can assure you some other forums would totally have a hernia if people did not care about paint and markings i.e. this forum has some niches.. lol

Lets do a "For Instance" excercise-

Mr "Tastless" Warbird Owner ( not referring to any particular owner, living or dead and from now on referred to as Mr T) has a good year running his capitalist corporation.
He decides to spend $250K on his P-51 that year as his operating budget.
Mr T also wants to use that budget to paint his P-51.
(Budget Quality Paint Job)

Running the numbers we have-

Sand and paint-
$25K with basic markings, OD glare shield and silver overall, Codes on the side of the fus.
$2-3K to add a Nose Color, spinner and about 12". Std Europe late war
$6-7K if they are squares or diamonds and scallop down to the rear lower cowl. Std Europe mid war.
$5K to add all the small stencils.

Strip and paint add $20K to the above.

To get a show quality paint job add 30-40% to these figures.

Now if Mr T does the paint the wheel wells don't look the best, so-

8K for budget mask and paint MLG wells.
5K to remove the hyd lines and components so you can reach and cover areas better.
10K to Strip paint.
4-5K to make and install new hyd lines and overhaul the hyd parts you removed
It would look a little better if the landing gear legs were removed so the paint around that area could cover better.
20K to remove stress doors, fuel cells, MLG legs which then could be pulled apart and NDT insp and new seals installed.

But the engine was also high time so a Roush engine is maybe 160K to O/H, Prop O/H could be 8K or so. New hoses and stuff to install with labor another 5K.
Maybe we should paint the engine compartment too while we are at it.

The rudder will need to be recovered since you can't just keep putting layers of paint on fabric so there is another 2K.

At some point in time you have to say what is worth it. With all the normal costs of storage, insurance ect this 51 may not have any money left to budget to flying. What does Mr T do at that point?
To keep flying maybe he has to tell his daughter that you'll be working at Wendy's this year and college might happen next year.

It's interesting that Nose Art and Paint Jobs gets this much attention in a season that we have witnessed some high profile losses of aircraft.

I'm all for Jelly Beans and second rate paint schemes if it focuses resources and contributes to maintaining the aircraft in the highest possible condition for safe operation.

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:12 pm

I know my O-2 doesn’t excite you like those exalted P-51s and Corsairs of which y’all so often speak. But it is a combat vet and is my “warbird.” The markings and the paint scheme are both representing original (albeit “shiny”) despite what most people think. And I have pictures of it at NKP to prove it. Those who know the history of the “night birds” in Thailand will understand. But I can be at a show parked next to purely civilian models dressed up with camo or AF gray pretending to be B models and have people accuse me of bringing the “fake” one. I patiently explain the plane’s 7 year history in Thailand and S Vietnam and then its 6 year history with ANG. Even show them rocket and bullet holes. Does it matter, probably not.

Warbird owners are not Gods…..I have met lots of the best and flown with some too. We are all just people enjoying our planes and hopefully giving the public a little bit of the history. Maybe some of you who think those P-51, Corsair, P-40, etc. owners act like “Gods” but it is because the way YOU perceive them and then attack how they display their planes. I’ve only met two people in my airshow career that truly believe they are “Gods” and both have been discussed over the years on WIX with good and bad comments. And no, they are not WIXers, past or present.

Even though this has not happened on WIX, I really don’t care if you complain about my paint scheme or the fact that I did not put the radio rack or military seats back in that the previous owner removed. I have my reasons and they are more important than “appearance.” Until those who complain start supporting our warbirds with checks, I figure it’s the same as complaining about politicians when you don’t take the time to vote.

Do I care about history…you betcha. Even though I enjoy flying, I fly airshows to honor the Forward Air Controllers who flew my plane in combat. I have met 26 of them so far…yes, 26 who flew MY O-2 not just O-2s in general. I also fly to honor all the Vietnam Veterans who were never properly thanked back in the day. So complain all you want about paint schemes and markings. At least I know the people who were there with my plane and others like it appreciate me telling their story.

Personally, I am sick and tired of this subject coming up on WIX over and over. Might account for my harsh tone here…..to you that complain, save your money, buy a warbird, learn to fly it, paint it in the scheme you deem historically correct, get involved on a museum board using decision power, whatever. Can we just cease and desist with the complaints about those who have already done it.

<Off my angry soapbox now>

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:24 pm

I hate P-51s with that pukey blue paint!! But for some reason I love the paint on Bald Eagle :shock:
Don't know, maybe it's the shade of blue?? Whatever it is, it looks great. It makes me feel a bit dirty :shock:
Maybe there's hope for me yet :? :wink:

Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:38 pm

This thread made me chuckle. Seriously?
When I win the lotto, I am going to buy a Corsair and paint it purple with a sharks mouth, invasion stipes, a swastikas on the tail and a Japanese meatball on the fuselage and maybe throw in some modern USAF marking if I can fit them. Why? because it would bring me great joy to piss off rivet counters and people who say "He shouldn't do that, that's not how it is supposed to look".
Topic locked