Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:16 pm
Someone with a lot more common sense than most of us said:
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
With that in mind, I'll open my mouth anyway. . .
There are many (and I do mean MANY) warbirds and classics out there today, both flying and static, whose paint schemes and nose art don't appeal to me. I'd prefer to see more historically accurate paint jobs. I generally don't care for civilian airplanes wearing military paint schemes, especially when the owner's intent seems to be passing the aircraft off as something it isn't. That's just me. With all of that being said, I would NEVER walk up to an owner, pilot, or crew member and chastise them because their airplane wasn't painted or detailed correctly. First and foremost, since I don't own the airplane, then it's none of my damned business! It's their airplane, and as long as they're paying the bills, they can paint it to their liking. I may not agree with their color choice, but I'm always mighty thankful for the opportunity to see and enjoy these historic aircraft. I'm forever glad that someone had the vision and the financial ability to save them from the scrapper. When I see an airplane that's not painted to my liking, it may bother me, and I'll probably mutter something about it under my breath, and I may even mention it to a friend. But to complain to the owner, pilot, or crew about their plane's paint scheme or detailing is nothing short of insulting, and there's no call for it, EVER. It is a privilege to just spend time in the presence of these great machines, whether I like the paint job or not!
We used to have people walk up to Chuckie at air shows and start pointing out all of the flaws, imperfections, and non-correct details. I'd let them go on for a while, but I'd eventually stop them and reply, "Everything you say is true. So where's [u]YOUR[/i] warbird? Is it 100% historically correct? Ours could be, too, if you'd write us a nice seven-figure check to finance the restoration!" Shuts 'em up every time. The bottom line is this: Until WE can write someone a seven-figure check to finance THEIR restoration, then WE have no right to whine about the inaccuracy of their plane's unit markings or their choice of ultra-detailed airbrushed nose art.
Occasionally someone will draw a parallel between restoring and showing classic airplanes versus the restoring and showing of classic cars. It's a perfect comparison. I've been restoring and showing classic cars for a long time now. It bugs the crap out of me when some know-it-all walks up to my Mustang and starts pointing out all of the incorrect details (which, by the way, is a six-time national show winner with a total of over 100 trophies, including several Best Paint, Best Interior, and Best Convertible awards, as well as a multi-page national magazine color feature to its credit). I've put my heart and soul into restoring that car, and yes, I did take a few liberties with it, and I'll never even pretend to deny that fact. But just like I've always done with the "Chuckie-bashers", I just ask them where THEIR car is, and would they like for me to go and start judging it? I'm a former Mustang Club of America certified national judge, and I can promise you, there's NO detail that will escape my judging. Funny thing. . . no one has EVER taken me up on my offer to judge their car in these situations. . . I dunno why. . .
Another poster in this thread asked whether WW2 veterans were put off by incorrect paint and detailing. I can't speak for all of them, but I can say that in all of my years of being involved with warbirds, I've never met one.
This entire thread has been VERY eye-opening. And, in some ways, very disappointing.
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
With that in mind, I'll open my mouth anyway. . .
There are many (and I do mean MANY) warbirds and classics out there today, both flying and static, whose paint schemes and nose art don't appeal to me. I'd prefer to see more historically accurate paint jobs. I generally don't care for civilian airplanes wearing military paint schemes, especially when the owner's intent seems to be passing the aircraft off as something it isn't. That's just me. With all of that being said, I would NEVER walk up to an owner, pilot, or crew member and chastise them because their airplane wasn't painted or detailed correctly. First and foremost, since I don't own the airplane, then it's none of my damned business! It's their airplane, and as long as they're paying the bills, they can paint it to their liking. I may not agree with their color choice, but I'm always mighty thankful for the opportunity to see and enjoy these historic aircraft. I'm forever glad that someone had the vision and the financial ability to save them from the scrapper. When I see an airplane that's not painted to my liking, it may bother me, and I'll probably mutter something about it under my breath, and I may even mention it to a friend. But to complain to the owner, pilot, or crew about their plane's paint scheme or detailing is nothing short of insulting, and there's no call for it, EVER. It is a privilege to just spend time in the presence of these great machines, whether I like the paint job or not!
We used to have people walk up to Chuckie at air shows and start pointing out all of the flaws, imperfections, and non-correct details. I'd let them go on for a while, but I'd eventually stop them and reply, "Everything you say is true. So where's [u]YOUR[/i] warbird? Is it 100% historically correct? Ours could be, too, if you'd write us a nice seven-figure check to finance the restoration!" Shuts 'em up every time. The bottom line is this: Until WE can write someone a seven-figure check to finance THEIR restoration, then WE have no right to whine about the inaccuracy of their plane's unit markings or their choice of ultra-detailed airbrushed nose art.
Occasionally someone will draw a parallel between restoring and showing classic airplanes versus the restoring and showing of classic cars. It's a perfect comparison. I've been restoring and showing classic cars for a long time now. It bugs the crap out of me when some know-it-all walks up to my Mustang and starts pointing out all of the incorrect details (which, by the way, is a six-time national show winner with a total of over 100 trophies, including several Best Paint, Best Interior, and Best Convertible awards, as well as a multi-page national magazine color feature to its credit). I've put my heart and soul into restoring that car, and yes, I did take a few liberties with it, and I'll never even pretend to deny that fact. But just like I've always done with the "Chuckie-bashers", I just ask them where THEIR car is, and would they like for me to go and start judging it? I'm a former Mustang Club of America certified national judge, and I can promise you, there's NO detail that will escape my judging. Funny thing. . . no one has EVER taken me up on my offer to judge their car in these situations. . . I dunno why. . .
Another poster in this thread asked whether WW2 veterans were put off by incorrect paint and detailing. I can't speak for all of them, but I can say that in all of my years of being involved with warbirds, I've never met one.
This entire thread has been VERY eye-opening. And, in some ways, very disappointing.
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:23 pm
Tulio wrote:Is it a matter of degree?
If the paint job is absolutely perfect, to the correct station, over the right rivet, the accurate and correct shade of blue / white / red/ silver, or whatever color, then the honor paid to those who served, is at its maximum expression?
If there are glitches, a quarter of an inch off here or there, the wrong markings, the size of the insignia not 100%, then the owner / restorer, is not interested in honoring them just the same?
Tulio
You mean like a certain US marked Spitfire having the Star & Bar moved an INCH because some jobsworth checked a 60yo photo with a vernier caliper & *discovered* it was in the wrong place? Guess he earned his paycheck that week..
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:49 pm
Oh my gosh...
Look at what those fools did with this Harvard...
CCF Harvard Mk.4 RCAF20352 C-GBQB by comiquaze, on Flickr
They should be ashamed...
Look at what those fools did with this Harvard...
CCF Harvard Mk.4 RCAF20352 C-GBQB by comiquaze, on Flickr
They should be ashamed...
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:56 pm
I know some are not a fan of this thread, but in all fairness, I think this is an OK thread. Everyone has been respectful in it thus far. I don't see an issue with a good discussion.
As for paint schemes, I think that the final word is with the owner. But I don't think there should be this attitude of if you don't own one, you shouldn't have an opinion. For those who think a paint job is not important I'd like to see you tell that to the Haus family after their fathers C-47 was depicted on our aircraft. That being said I can see a guy wanting to paint his name on the canopy rail of his Mustang. I think there is room for both.
P.S. The Jelly Bean Mustang wouldn't bother me so bad if it wasn't a combat vet with WWII kills.
As for paint schemes, I think that the final word is with the owner. But I don't think there should be this attitude of if you don't own one, you shouldn't have an opinion. For those who think a paint job is not important I'd like to see you tell that to the Haus family after their fathers C-47 was depicted on our aircraft. That being said I can see a guy wanting to paint his name on the canopy rail of his Mustang. I think there is room for both.
P.S. The Jelly Bean Mustang wouldn't bother me so bad if it wasn't a combat vet with WWII kills.
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:19 pm
Mike Smith to Me: "So Jack whatcha think of the marking on my P-40K?"
Me to Mike Smith: "Can I be honest or should I just lie?"
Mike Smith to Me: "I think it looks like something a pimp would fly!"
Me to Mike Smith: "um-um-um, yeah OK we'll go with that."
Never lose your sense of humor. I sent Mike a pair of fuzzy dice for it and he hung them
in his F-15
Me to Mike Smith: "Can I be honest or should I just lie?"
Mike Smith to Me: "I think it looks like something a pimp would fly!"
Me to Mike Smith: "um-um-um, yeah OK we'll go with that."
Never lose your sense of humor. I sent Mike a pair of fuzzy dice for it and he hung them
in his F-15
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:34 pm
Ollie wrote:Oh my gosh...
Look at what those fools did with this Harvard...
CCF Harvard Mk.4 RCAF20352 C-GBQB by comiquaze, on Flickr
They should be ashamed...
I for one absolutely love that paint scheme.
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:37 pm
Ollie better get the green off the gear doors or Vlado will all over his *ss about that
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:51 pm
I thought the green gear doors only applied to the inside of the door, not the outside. 
Oh wait, the inside *IS* green too...
Sic'em Vlado.
Back on topic - while I have honest and strong disagreements with some on here, I agree that the thread's been kept civil and respectful and think that maybe it just needs to be occasionally hashed out because I think in the end it is better for everyone.
Oh wait, the inside *IS* green too...
Sic'em Vlado.
Back on topic - while I have honest and strong disagreements with some on here, I agree that the thread's been kept civil and respectful and think that maybe it just needs to be occasionally hashed out because I think in the end it is better for everyone.
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:55 pm
vlado wrote:I'm sticking to my green landing gear door policy!!
VL
You noticed we changed our's to match your standards. We didn't judge " The Brat III" at Oshkosh because it isn't exactly the way it should be. But it is a true combat veteran, painted in it's original markings. Just polished, with dual controls added.
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:00 pm
Should have added invasion stripes and sharks teeth then it would be perfect except for the wrong rivet count and.............
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:05 pm
spookythecat wrote:Ollie wrote:Oh my gosh...
Look at what those fools did with this Harvard...
CCF Harvard Mk.4 RCAF20352 C-GBQB by comiquaze, on Flickr
They should be ashamed...
I for one absolutely love that paint scheme.
Is it the fact that the doors are green, or that there are doors on a Harvard?
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:17 pm
CAPFlyer wrote:I thought the green gear doors only applied to the inside of the door, not the outside.
Oh wait, the inside *IS* green too...
Uh oh.. The door jambs, tailgate jamb & the inside of the hood on my '70 Ranchero are all painted Olive Green... AND it has invasion stripes...
& the hood is Dark OG...altho gloss, so not a true anti-glare effect..
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:23 pm
Just need them teeth!
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:45 pm
The P-47 "SNAFU" or P-51 "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" didn't end up super accurate by accident, so I doubt you'd offend those restorers by complimenting their level of accuracy. A ton of effort went into getting it right. If an owner wants to do it his way instead, that's fine too. I know what I prefer, but I can keep my comments to myself.
Discussing historical details on configuration or paint scheme is just that - a discussion. As long as it's polite and kept to "just the facts", I don't see a problem.
Bottom line, I don't think that many of us really care a rip about this ... it's just that someone starts a thread that they think all of us will pile in on. Before you know it, like street brawl, the guy who threw the first punch is long gone.
Ken
Discussing historical details on configuration or paint scheme is just that - a discussion. As long as it's polite and kept to "just the facts", I don't see a problem.
Bottom line, I don't think that many of us really care a rip about this ... it's just that someone starts a thread that they think all of us will pile in on. Before you know it, like street brawl, the guy who threw the first punch is long gone.
Ken
Re: Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners
Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:22 pm
T28Mike threw a big 'ol rock and ran like hell! 
So reading it all now, what say ye, T28mike?
So reading it all now, what say ye, T28mike?