What just happened at Reno?

[hstandard4]

If that's a legitimate photo, then it's pretty miraculous.

The photo on CNN.com shows the tail wheel down as well.

Hate to say it, but I believe it's a genuine photo

I really hope they don't post much more like that.

But is VERY important to a root cause potential




Doc

[spookythecat]

Here is the other photo that's been discussed.

[Robbie Roberts]

Did we just relive Bob Hannah's experience with "Voodoo Chile" except with tragic results?
http://www.warbird.com/voodoo.html
and EAA's comments:
http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-09-16_reno.asp

Reading that article, and comparing the pics of "Galloping Ghost" inverted & "Voodoo Chile" on the ground, they are very similarly injured. Looks like Voodoo just got darn lucky, and Ghost did not...

Seeing that second pic(above this post) I would venture that perhaps, like "Voodoo Chile", he was in fact passed out from the g-force, and did not recover as fast as the other gent.

What do you think would cause that tab to rip off at speed? Simple aerodynamic pressure? Or have we exceeded the structural limitations of the component?

The one who throws the dice, always gets the last call...

Scott

Last edited by Robbie Roberts on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bluehawk15]

Could a missing trim tab cause that much control problem? I'm sure they must have lost more control surfaces than that in the war and still made it home...didn't they? P-51 experts, what say you? I don't know how the 51's control surfaces work. Is it possible that the trim tab also works as a servo and the elevator is deflected so much the tab seems to be missing because it's also fully deflected? Then again, the horizontal and elevator edge lines seem to be in allignment.

[Lynn Allen]

Could a missing trim tab cause that much control problem? I'm sure they must have lost more control surfaces than that in the war and still made it home...didn't they? P-51 experts, what say you? I don't know how the 51's control surfaces work. Is it possible that the trim tab also works as a servo and the elevator is deflected so much the tab seems to be missing because it's also fully deflected? Then again, the horizontal and elevator edge lines seem to be in allignment.

Mike, ask Col. Heyden when the Rose lost a trim tab, a bolt fell out....

[hstandard4]

Could a missing trim tab cause that much control problem? I'm sure they must have lost more control surfaces than that in the war and still made it home...didn't they? P-51 experts, what say you? I don't know how the 51's control surfaces work. Is it possible that the trim tab also works as a servo and the elevator is deflected so much the tab seems to be missing because it's also fully deflected? Then again, the horizontal and elevator edge lines seem to be in allignment.

Your talkin a 20 y/o kid in war vs. a 74 y/o current pilot, less tolerence/resiliance to high G's
He couldv'e even had something cardiac triggered at those stresses??

All possible

[JohnTerrell]

The similarity to the Voodoo incident, is definitely on my mind as well. The thing that got me thinking about the two, is that a couple of eye-witnesses I saw speak on the news this evening, talked about the plane pitching and climbing "impossibly skyward", until it simply couldn't fly anymore and lost control. That, combined with the photos released on Yahoo news, seems in line with what Hannah experienced. In any case, all speculation until the final word is made.

I've always been a fond admirer of Jimmy Leeward the pilot, and I wish I could have gotten the chance to meet him someday. Prayers go out to all of those trying to heal this evening, both physically and emotionally.

[Randy Haskin]

Why does he not have shoulder straps on????

It's perfectly possible to be slumped forward with shoulder straps fully attached and cinched down.

And can't you SEE the back of his helmet against the instrument panel???

A heart attack??

More like a 74 year old man's response to abrupt and intense G, if indeed the trim tab separation is the core malfunction.

[bluehawk15]

Lynn, I remember all too well that rudder trim tab incident. But that trim tab was still attached and flapping. I wouldn't think a missing one would cause the same problem.

If the shoulder straps weren't locked, forward movement like that could be possible.

[Randy Haskin]

Could a missing trim tab cause that much control problem? I'm sure they must have lost more control surfaces than that in the war and still made it home...didn't they? P-51 experts, what say you? I don't know how the 51's control surfaces work. Is it possible that the trim tab also works as a servo and the elevator is deflected so much the tab seems to be missing because it's also fully deflected? Then again, the horizontal and elevator edge lines seem to be in allignment.

Think about how much nose-down trim there is at 500 mph.

Now think about all that trim going away if the trim tab departs the aircraft. An abrupt, high-G pitch up results. Think about the physiological effects of that, on ANY pilot, much less a 74 year old one.

[Russ Blow]

Yep, you have to hand it to the guys with the Huey. Nothing beats having an authentic warbird that can really do some good in a pinch like that. Hats off to them for thinking fast and pitching in to provide critical help.

Here is a photo of the Huey performing medevac. My hat is off to those guys for their quick thinking. Well done gentlemen.

[bluehawk15]

Randy, I hadn't thought about the trim setting for the speed! I do recall a CAF friend of mine, Bill Powers, who flew P-51's in Korea, and in the late 70's flew one of John Stoke's Mustangs, saying how trim sensitive the Mustang was, and how he was taught when learning to fly formation in one that you are constantly adjusting the trim setting. So yes, I can see a lot of nose-down trim resulting in a big pitch-up if you lost a trim tab. Just typing before thinking this through very much, but for nose-down, the trim tab would be deflected up, wouldn't it? And if one went away on the left side, and the right one was up, wouldn't it become a roll control surface then, causing a roll to the right, which I believe was what was reported prior to the vertical dive?

[mike furline]

Voodoo Chile incident 1998, 10G's and unconcious.
http://www.warbird.com/voodoo.html

More pictures of Reno, another photo with the tail wheel down.
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110916/EVE ... 27nofollow

[Ploesti]

Tragic in every way, I've met Jimmy a few times, don't claim to know him but he was a good guy.

It's perfectly possible to be slumped forward with shoulder straps fully attached and cinched down.

I was thinking the other way, wouldn't the G's push you down and back? Just my thought and probably way too early to even think about such things, simply tragic and probably an end to air racing for a while. Hopefully not, but this one really hurts the cause for air racing. Prayers to all involved.

Here is a video that shows a bit more of what could have happened. So sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e60_W4tuTNI

[Mike]

Very, very sad. Condolences to all those involved in this tragic accident.

There are pictures on the KOLO TV website showing the trim tab departing as the aircraft pulls up and rolls inverted.

http://www.kolotv.com/