TRI-STATE WARBIRD MUSEUM P-40M update

Kammerdd · **Joined:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:03 pm **Posts:** 5

Hey folks! Good news from the Tri-State Warbird Museum the P-40 has been completed! I don't know if a topic was posted about this but I saw this one in passing. I am a volunteer member of the Tri-State Warbird Museum, and I will attempt to post pictures tomorrow or thursday if I can.

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:41 pm

Thanks for the report and welcome to WIX! Look forward to seeing pictures of this P-40.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:19 pm

That is great news indeed. Would you mind also please posting a report and photos to the Wings Over New Zealand Aviation Forum, which is NZ's biggest forum for aviation matters, because the aircraft is very close to our hearts given its RNZAF history and it's long history here under restoration after being rescued from being smeltered down. Thanks.
http://rnzaf.proboards.com

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:22 pm

OMG how is it this P-40 doesn't wear US markings (and a shark mouth)? I don't think US aircraft should wear foreign markings-it just isn't right :twisted:

BCA · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:36 pm **Posts:** 21

Maybe I can shed some light on the subject. I do not speak for the Tri-state Warbird Museum or Paul Redlich. I did however make all of the aluminum castings and many dozens of machined parts for this P40 and over the last 2 and a half years had many detailed conversations with Paul on the P40. It could be that Fisken did fly this airplane but is highly unlikely (he did however sign the fuselage access door). Paul said that he was told the plane has a combat history but that that was later found to be untrue. What they think happened to it was that it was involved in a landing accident on its maiden flight in New Zealand after being unloaded from the ship and reassembled. It was shoved off to the side and repaired at a later date. In the meantime the Kiwis transitioned to the F4U Corsair and once the P40 was repaired it was used as an advanced trainer and never saw combat.

On the FW190 they are currently trying to sort out the Flug Werks screwed up landing gear. I've made two "proof of concept" prototype parts for them to try and fix the geometry. This airplane's LG has the same problem that the prototype had a number of years ago. The LG arm locks on the wing spar when retracted and will not allow the gear legs to extend. At this point we are scatching our heads.

It is planned to fly the FW190 with the ASH 82 engine (of which TSWM has two).

If anyone is interested in visiting my website they can do so at http://www.blackcrossaviation.com

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1471

BCA wrote:

On the FW190 they are currently trying to sort out the Flug Werks screwed up landing gear. I've made two "proof of concept" prototype parts for them to try and fix the geometry. This airplane's LG has the same problem that the prototype had a number of years ago. The LG arm locks on the wing spar when retracted and will not allow the gear legs to extend. At this point we are scatching our heads.

Maybe I'm revealing my ignorance here but, as there are three or four Flug Werk aircraft flying regularly, I can only assume that a fix for the problem has been engineered. No? Are the various operators not willing to share their "trade secrets"?

BCA · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:36 pm **Posts:** 21

There are several Flug Werks AC flying but it also seems that there are a couple of iterations of LG struts as well. TSWM is in contact with the folks in South Carolina that repaired the FW190 that went into a ditch on take off (a couple of years ago) and their gear legs are a bit different. It may be that a trip to SC is in order. That is what I know from where I sit.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:24 am

DaveM2 wrote:

OMG how is it this P-40 doesn't wear US markings (and a shark mouth)? I don't think US aircraft should wear foreign markings-it just isn't right :twisted:

Once again the reason that 99.9% of most people even give a P-40 a second look is because of the heritage of the AVG. The Allan collection is the only shot to get it right for a complete and correct AVG P-40. I for one favor US markings on US planes just as I prefer to see RAF markings on RAF aircraft, and so on.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:58 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

DaveM2 wrote:

OMG how is it this P-40 doesn't wear US markings (and a shark mouth)? I don't think US aircraft should wear foreign markings-it just isn't right :twisted:

Once again the reason that 99.9% of most people even give a P-40 a second look is because of the heritage of the AVG. The Allan collection is the only shot to get it right for a complete and correct AVG P-40. I for one favor US markings on US planes just as I prefer to see RAF markings on RAF aircraft, and so on.

Fortunately for those of us who have a genuine interest in history TriState have elected to respect the aircraft's pedigree, rather than pandering to the ignorant with window dressing.

BCA- Yes information is shared throughout the FW community quite regularly, however it is of limited use as the problems are more often than not different with each aircraft.

Chad- Paul is aware of the problems we have had with the protoype based here, ( one undercarriage retract problem, and the prop) but said he didn't have a pressing interest as it was some years away from flying.
We have just received our repaired blades back from Germany, so hopefully can resume test flying in a few weeks.

Dave

Kammerdd · **Joined:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:03 pm **Posts:** 5

Dave Homewood wrote:

That is great news indeed. Would you mind also please posting a report and photos to the Wings Over New Zealand Aviation Forum, which is NZ's biggest forum for aviation matters, because the aircraft is very close to our hearts given its RNZAF history and it's long history here under restoration after being rescued from being smeltered down. Thanks.
http://rnzaf.proboards.com

I was at the museum today, the P-40 is looking very good. Still no luck on the pictures though since it is not fully operational. It was run today however and flown a little yesterday. So it is looking good for the near future. More information when I have it.

And Dave, I would be more than happy to, once the aircraft is fully operational and hopefully I can record a video of a flight!

kalamazookid wrote:

Thanks for the report and welcome to WIX! Look forward to seeing pictures of this P-40.

Thanks for the welcome! I don't know how I didn't find this forum earlier! Pictures will be up as soon as they are approved!

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:13 am

Thanks Kammerdd. It will be great to finally see this aircaft flying. It's exciting to hear it is having engine runs. Not long now.

mustangdriver wrote:

Once again the reason that 99.9% of most people even give a P-40 a second look is because of the heritage of the AVG.

Not me Chris. I was interested in P-40's for a long, long time before I had even heard of the AVG 'Flying Tigers', they were very low on my radar. My interest in the P-40 was originally from the RNZAF service of the type, reading books and articles about their successes. I still have very little interest at all in the AVG, to be honest.

Quote:

I for one favor US markings on US planes just as I prefer to see RAF markings on RAF aircraft, and so on.

So are you happy to see RNZAF markings on this RNZAF plane? I am.

Trivia Time: Did you know an RNZAF fighter ace, names Derrick Westenra, is credited as the first person to apply the shark mouth to a P-40? He flew them in North Africa, with No. 112 Squadron RAF.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:29 am

By the way, I sent an email (I thought) to Tri-State a while back with some details I found in an RNZAF pilot's logbook who had flown this machine. I wondered why I didn't get a reply and after a little investigation later I think I may have sent it to Tri-State Aviation that rebuilds Mustangs, which it seems might be a totally different company (???). Whoops.

So, perhaps the people here associated with the aircraft might find this of interest. This is the message I sent:

"I currently have the loan of flying logbooks that belonged to the late pilot Dave Howlett. He flew NZ3119 on two occasions whilst he was training at No. 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, at RNZAF Station Ohakea. The logbook entries are as follows:

8 November 1944 - 30 minutes of drogue firing with Cinegun (2 machine guns)
13 November 1944 - 45 minutes of evasive flying practive (with cine camera fitted)

I don't know if these snippets are of any interest but I thought it might be worth sending them through, in case you are compiling an archive of the aircraft's movements. I see numerous fighter pilots' logbooks from time to time so can keep an eye out for others if you would like.

By the way, I saw that the engine had been run, but has there been a first flight yet? We here in New Zealand are following the restoration project and await more news. It is wonderful that the aircraft will fly again in RNZAF colours. I hope it gets seen all across America in that colour scheme so the airshow fans can learn a little about NZ's war effort alongside the rest of the Allies."

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

Dave Homewood wrote:

"I currently have the loan of flying logbooks that belonged to the late pilot Dave Howlett. He flew NZ3119 on two occasions whilst he was training at No. 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, at RNZAF Station Ohakea. The logbook entries are as follows:

8 November 1944 - 30 minutes of drogue firing with Cinegun (2 machine guns)
13 November 1944 - 45 minutes of evasive flying practive (with cine camera fitted)

I don't know if these snippets are of any interest but I thought it might be worth sending them through, in case you are compiling an archive of the aircraft's movements. I see numerous fighter pilots' logbooks from time to time so can keep an eye out for others if you would like.

I don't know about anyone else but I find that incredibly interesting. Being able to link a current warbird to it wartime past and a pilot is priceless stuff.

Chappie

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:39 am

Dave

That is most useful for the research into the article CW will be doing on the aircraft :wink:

I hope to contact some people here in Blenheim who may have an ex SAFE AIR pilot's archives, he had many copies of RNZAF log books, but sadly tossed many when his health started to fail.
Yes the aircraft has flown a few times, but nothing substantial will appear in the aviation press until it makes a 'splash' at one of the major air shows next year.

I will pass your info on to the owner if you like. Tri State Aviation is indeed a different outfit.

Dave

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:02 am

I'm glad it was of some interest, I met Dave when he was still alive and he was a great bloke. He went on from this OTU training to join No. 19 Squadron and flew Corsairs in the Pacific. Just before the war ended he was taking off for a raid on Rabaul and he confused his cockpit drill on take off, cutting the throttle by accident. His fully laiden and fuelled aircrfat sank back onto the runway, the belly tank burst and the fuel caught fire. He had the cockpit open ready to jump out but the flames cam in and badly burned his arm. He spent the end of the war in hospital getting treated for burns. He died last year.

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