Old Bill and Bruce Bairnsfather

[Django]

This was posted on the VLJ forum and I thought I would help Marcel out. I had never heard of Old Bill and Bruce Bairnsfather, so I found it pretty interesting. Does anyone know if this panel survived and where that it might be displayed?

Nose Art, on 305th Bomb Group, 422nd Bomb Squadron, B-17F, serial 42-29673, named “Old Bill”
The B-17 left the U.S. 19 March 1943, assigned to the 305th B.G. on 6 April.

helloooooooooo,

wow, i was thinking it was just a well knowed nose art but i discover it's a real institution.

i visit this little link dedicated to BB.
no no, not Brigitte Bardot.....BB for Bruce Bairnsfather.
i discover another plane painted in his honour, also a bomber but not USAAF; it was a RCAF Halifax.

http://www.brucebairnsfather.com/3.html

some photos of my different searches.

this one from footnote


this one showing an Old Bill on a wall


wreck of Old Bill


the remain of this nose art somewhere in a museum...but where ????????
someone know where is the museum ???? and have someone a good and close picture of it ?????


byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee marcel

[JDK]

Bruce drew Bill as a cartoon character in the Great War and Bill became so popular he was co-opted for the war effort.

Well known on the Western Front and as a result on the home-fronts resulting.

No surprise he'd turn up on a Halifax, but interesting on a B-17. No idea as to where the nose art might be myself.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bairnsfather

[Mgawa]

A little off topic- this cartoon show it with V fingers but with turned palm in other side, what is precise meaning of this?

[JDK]

A little off topic- this cartoon show it with V fingers but with turned palm in other side, what is precise meaning of this?

The V sign is a hand gesture in which the first and second fingers are raised and parted, whilst the remaining fingers are clenched. In the United Kingdom and some other English speaking countries, it is an obscene insulting gesture of defiance when performed with the palm facing inwards. During World War II, Winston Churchill popularised its use as a "Victory" sign (for V as in victory) initially with palm inwards and later in the war palm outwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign

[Mgawa]

Thank you James

[Old Bill]

Django
We wrote Bruce Bairnsfather's biography - 'In Search of the Better 'Ole' and this year was the 50th Anniversary of his death. We produced a collection of his cartoons and all of the royalties from the book are going to the Help for Heroes Charity. We also held an auction of Bairnsfather tribute cartoons at the Cartoon Museum in London and all monies raised (about £8,000) also went to the same charity. Full details and more Bairnsfather pics at http://www.bb4h4h.co.uk . His daughter lives in the USA.

[Django]

Thanks for the info. Have you ever tracked down the nose art panel?

[p51]

“Old Bill” was the “Willie and Joe” of the WW1 era. Bruce did a tour as a correspondent/cartoonist with the US Army early in the war. Info on that can be found here: http://www.brucebairnsfather.org.uk/index_files/page0019.htm He even did a book of cartoons in 1943 showing GIs, called, “Jeeps and Jests” which is hard to find (I have a copy and it’s really good). I’m pretty sure that the Old Bill art shows up in the original “Memphis Belle” documentary. I had no idea that nose art survived the scrapping of the plane. You’d think by now, its location would be well known if it’s still around.

[modeltspeedster]

Bill died this past summer. The nose art still resides with the family. It will most likely go to the Smithsonian, if they want it.

[Django]

Bill died this past summer. The nose art still resides with the family. It will most likely go to the Smithsonian, if they want it.

Hi there. Welcome aboard from a fellow hot rodder. Sad to hear of his passing. If the family wants to donate it to a worthy museum, that would be great to have another surviving example of nose art for all to see. I myself would be thrilled to be able to see it in person someday.

[Steve Nelson]

That B-17 features quite prominently in the "Memphis Belle" documentary, both before a mission and after return with battle damage. I had no idea the panel still existed. Seems to me that if the family wished to part with it, it would be a perfect fit with the Belle when she goes on display at the NMUSAF.

SN

[modeltspeedster]

The family has contacted both the Smithsonian & the the AF Museum in Dayton, OH. They want to place it on extended loan but the AF folks insist on it being strictly a donation. So who knows how or where it will wind up.

Django, thanks for the welcome! Gotta love those old cars too!

[Obergrafeter]

I'm sure the CAF would take it on loan and put with their nose art collection. Anyone contact them?

[Django]

I'm sure there are any number of Museums who would love to accept it on loan. Try contacting the Grissom Air Museum as well, as they have a B-17 too. I will pm you with some info for them.

[Jigs Bumper]

Hello Forum
I caught this posting concerning the noseart of ''OLD BILL''.

I am somewhat surprised to hear, allegedly, that the family of the late Bill Whitson, her Pilot, have now made enquiries to place this historic piece of noseart on display within a museum environment. During the years of Bill's life, there were many requests to have this on display and each time, but each time there was a resistance to that. I am aware of only one specific instance of the noseart leaving Bill's home, and that was for a 305th BG reunion in the 1980's. And of course that was not actually a public exhibition, but rather specific to those attending the reunion and being former members of the 305th.

My understanding was Bill's wishes were, for this item to remain within the family, period.

The item itself has been admired from afar by many people. I include history buffs as well as more dubious ''memorabilia collectors''. I knew of Bill's death in August, we were notified by the family very soon after his passing. That news was held in confidence within the BGMA, because of the expected interest, and less desirable attentions that would be generated, and perhaps unwanted soliciting toward the family who were grieving at that time.

Yes, it would be wonderful to see this noseart on display for all to see. However, the thorny issue of someone taking control and responsibility for this is a big one. I have seen in recent months several questionable situations where museums, well known ones, taking on personal memorabilia from both living and recently deceased Veterans, for it only to be stored away out of sight. The issue of donation is a distressing one, because a family can find itself loosing all rights to what had been, and in their eyes still is, their family history. Especially when the said items are then found not displayed, or are removed and stored out of sight at a later date, again resigned in storage. The much better arrangement is ''LOAN'' with a contract written up where upon the family hold total legal title and ownership, and can, if they so desire, have the item(s) returned to them.

I am personally in favour of displaying this history, BUT, on a ''LOAN'' basis, and the family concerned having full ownership and rights of return.

There are too many such personal items across the museum network which, even now, remain in cardboard boxes in dusty basements or lock ups. Museums have a real problem in this, because they take on so much with limited space for display on a long term basis. If you ran an audit on most I think you'd discover the items on public show run to probably 25% of their holdings; the rest is locked away. The other big worry is a rotation of ''volunteer staff'' at many such facilities. Faces and personal agendas change with alarming regularity. Many are well intentioned, and just get overwhelmed in the enthusiasm. Then there are others who get involved who have a more shady motives. It is a fact of life that sadly, items get moved around, paperwork gets separated and abused, and yes, personal items suddenly grow legs and go for a walk..... ending up in private collectors hands.

It is a huge responsibility, handling what is history of great human endeavour.

Ian White - Vice President 305th Bomb Group Memorial Association