The Fairey Firefly

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:14 pm

That is the ugliest version of the Fairey Battle but it is great to see one preserved and looking so well kept.

What happened to the other six Swordfish from the Ernie Simpson estate auction?

Regarding those Fireflies form Eritrea, two of them came to New Zealand, from South Africa I believe. They sat in containers for several years at Ardmore hoping to find a buyer. One was eventually sold and I think may have gone to the USA but I'm not certain of that. They other is still stored at Ardmore. I hope someday that Avspecs might get the chance to restore it.

There can't be too many Fireflies left in the world today i guess, they are certianly not as common as Spitfires or Hurricanes.

m charters · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:23 pm

I have flown in the back of the CWH Firefly and it is an amazing aircraft. Noisy!!! She is a little slower than some British fighters, but she has lots of power.
Additionally in Canada is the restoration to flying condition of this early model Firefly in Shearwater Nova Scotia. http://www.shearwateraviationmuseum.ns. ... irefly.htm

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:00 am

Dave Homewood wrote:

There can't be too many Fireflies left in the world today i guess, they are certianly not as common as Spitfires or Hurricanes.

Ha ha! Hurricanes certainly aren't common, but they are just more historically prized than the later-war Firefly. There's a fair number of Fireflies out there, but there's not the interest in restoring them.

"Common" would be North American Aviation's products - B-25, P-51 and of course T-6/Harvards. The P-51 is the only W.W.II fighter type flying in three digit figures; Spitfire fliers hover about 50+, with a dozen or so Hurricanes flying. Then P-40s make double digits, while most other fighter types flying exist in number of less than that. (Numbers in preservation overall can be seen as usually bearing a proportional relation to numbers flying -or vice versa. The exceptions to that rule of thumb are interesting.)

Currently IIRC there are only two flying Fireflies, ironically in N America, and mentioned above, with several projects and restorations possibly to add to that. The tragic fatal loss of the Royal Navy Historic Flight's example was a big loss to the UK's diversity.

One point missed so far is that the Firefly was an unusual aircraft in that its Fairey-Youngman flaps could be used as combat manoeuvring flaps, being able to be extended out from the mainplane, making a 'slotted flap' like the Junkers type flaps, and then angled as required by the pilot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flap_%28ai ... ring_flaps

The Fairey Firefly's record in Europe and the Pacific at the war's end and in Korea is an effective one - as per Ryan's original remarks, it is often traduced unfairly, when you consider the record.

Regards,

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:30 am

Dave Homewood wrote:

...What happened to the other six Swordfish from the Ernie Simpson estate auction?

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... w5856.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... hs469.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... hs503.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... hs517.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... mons1.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... mons2.html

http://warbirdregistry.org/swordregistr ... mons4.html

Sorry if there's some overlap here, as I don't make it a point of tracking Swordfish(es?). This is just some of what was found in a 10-minute search.

Is the old Dave Price static display aircraft the one that is now on display in Midland with the CAF (old man memory failure)?

Steve T · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:21 pm

Yep, the WIX register has plenty of good info. Ernie Simmons (not "Simpson"), incidentally, had more than just the seven Swordfish that were auctioned after his death; also sold at auction were three dozen North American Yales--without Ernie the NA-64 would be virtually extinct!--and a number of ex-Anson Cheetah engines, plus a huge collection of vintage cars, motorcycles, et cetera. Like Walt Soplata, Ernie did also sell a handful of items before his death, including the Lysander Dwight Brooks restored in the 70s (now at Udvar Hazy) and the Swordfish now at CA&SM in Ottawa ("NS122", but the ID is an arbitrary one, they didn't succeed in tracing an original ID for it). More than half the surviving Swordfish were once Ernie's, besides his singlehanded rescue of the fixed-gear NAA trainer lineage. Thus Bob Spence's use of Ernie's initials as his Swordfish's civil registration is most apt. Ernie was a strange one, to be sure, especially in his later years, but we flying-machine buffs owe him a lot.

S.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:38 pm

Thanks for these details.

James when I said Hurricanes were more common, I didn't mean just flying examples. There seems to be plenty in museums and collections around the world whereas you hardly ever see any Fireflies in museums. Maybe I have the wrong impression? Are there just as many Fireflies around as Hurricanes in collections?

The one that was at Duxford when I visited in 1993 was a highlight of that trip, I loved its name on the side, "Evelyn Tentions" (sounds like Evil Intentions).

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

Dave, the Duxford one was, rather bizarrely, given away to the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton a few years back. Duxford seem to be more into getting rid of stuff than adding new items these days.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:45 am

Dave Homewood wrote:

James when I said Hurricanes were more common, I didn't mean just flying examples. There seems to be plenty in museums and collections around the world whereas you hardly ever see any Fireflies in museums. Maybe I have the wrong impression? Are there just as many Fireflies around as Hurricanes in collections?

From memory (I'll check numbers later) there's not that many more Hurricanes than Fireflies surviving, it's just that most Hurricanes are up front and centre on show, while many Fireflies are stored or not so prominently displayed. There's certainly more Fireflies in the southern hemisphere than Hurricanes.

Quote:

The one that was at Duxford when I visited in 1993 was a highlight of that trip, I loved its name on the side, "Evelyn Tentions" (sounds like Evil Intentions).

It's meant to, that's the reason for the name.

Regards,

herbert 1 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:42 am **Posts:** 3

Mike wrote:

Dave, the Duxford one was, rather bizarrely, given away to the Fleet Air Arm Museum at Yeovilton a few years back. Duxford seem to be more into getting rid of stuff than adding new items these days.

The Duxford Firefly is on loan to the FAA museum and was not given away,

Andy

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:34 am

JDK wrote:

From memory (I'll check numbers later) there's not that many more Hurricanes than Fireflies surviving,...

A quick count of identities (i.e. not just complete airframes) in the Warbird Directory gives roughly 22 Fireflies and 72 Hurricanes - so there's over three times more Hurricanes surviving than Fireflies. - Oops!

However this is not just a reflection of careless counting by me (though it is that :oops:

) but the higher interest in the Hurricane than the Firefly, with Hurricane wrecks being worth recovery in numbers while this is unlikely to be the case for the Firefly, even relatively pristine restoration projects finding it hard to get a buyer. Going back to Les Hunt's benchmark Veteran & Vintage Aircraft of 1966, there were 12 known Fireflies and 20 Hurricanes worldwide. It's good that these numbers have grown, but indicative that more Hurricanes have been more worth more recoveries and more restoration work.

Again, there is an issue where the feedback loop of fame feeding itself for particular more familiar artefacts has a negative effect on diversity.

Regards,

SeptRepair · **Joined:** Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:55 pm **Posts:** 58

Steve T wrote:

She's a lucky aircraft in an odd way: right after completion in 1992 in Victoria BC, she swung off a runway and struck a backhoe, suffering damage that precipitated virtually a second rebuild. That doesn't sound lucky unless one remembers she was due to be flown back to Hamilton soon afterward...and would, beyond doubt, have spent the post-season of 92-93 in the maintenance bay of Hgr#3. Thus, without that unscheduled encounter with that backhoe at Victoria...she'd have perished in the infamous fire!

I remember the backhoe incident well. I did not realize, in a strange twisted way of fate, it avoided the fire. Learn something new everyday. After the aircraft arrived back in the hangar, one of the guys in the shop put a silhouette cut out of a backhoe below the cockpit to signify a kill. That did not go over well, and we had to hide the guys identity who pulled the stunt to prevent him from being fired.( no it wasnt me) Could have heard a pin drop in the hanger for days afterwards. I will scan and upload a couple pictures of the accident later today.

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:05 pm

While on the topic, I'd lost track of Firefly WD840's progress. She's certainly come a long way from this:

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/MilitaryP ... irefly.htm

To this:

http://faireyfireflywd840.com/ftcollins.htm

Has first flight occured?

SeptRepair · **Joined:** Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:55 pm **Posts:** 58

As promised http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae14 ... 1322244074

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:27 pm

Dan K wrote:

While on the topic, I'd lost track of Firefly WD840's progress. She's certainly come a long way from this:

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/MilitaryP ... irefly.htm

To this:

http://faireyfireflywd840.com/ftcollins.htm

Has first flight occured?

Doh...guess this answers my question.

http://www.platinumfighters.com/firefly

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:53 pm

JDK wrote:

Quote:

The one that was at Duxford when I visited in 1993 was a highlight of that trip, I loved its name on the side, "Evelyn Tentions" (sounds like Evil Intentions).

It's meant to, that's the reason for the name.

Regards,

I know it was the resaon for the name, I added the bit in brackets for those who might not instantly "get" it. it took me a while to realise what the name was actually about, at first I thought it was the name of the pilot's girlfriend. Does anyone know who flew the aircraft with that noseart? And is that aircraft the actual Firefly that wore that name or is it a representative type posing as it?

Nice to see my thoughts on numbers of Hurricanes vs Fireflies were right, and nice see numbers are so high on both ledgers. I guess the reason why so Fireflies few have been recovered recently compared with Hurricanes is most Fireflies probably ditched into the sea rather than on land. And a lot of them were also blown up as drones late in the type's life.

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