The Town Bomber

I'm doing some research on a specific aircraft (in this case a combat veteran B-24) that was rescued from an RFC / WAA boneyard and exhibited in a town near me, which was scrapped when its condition got too bad. I started finding references to other bombers pulled from the boneyard.

Aerovin posted a comment back in May which said:

The hindsight of sixty years is nice, but just what was the government supposed to do with 20,000 obsolete airplanes that nobody, virtually nobody, wanted except for their scrap value? The RFC let hundreds go for war memorials or to technical schools. The airplanes were made available for sale to civilians for pennies on the dollar and had few takers.

"Memphis Belle" and "Swoose" were successful examples (IIRC the Swoose was originally saved for the City of Los Angeles) - and they both came pretty close to destruction.

My question is, How many others were there that DIDN'T make it? Where? How long did they last? It might make an interesting article if no-one's covered it already. (if there is an article or web page I'd like to see it - I don't want to re-invent the wheel or steal someone's thunder)

I'm sure there was a post here (I think it was here) about a B-17 up on the east coast that was saved, exhibited in a town and then scrapped but I can't find the post now.

A couple of other examples I have come across - at least one of which is pretty well known

B-17D 40-3092 Ended life as Trainer for Aviation Engineering Cadet Detachment at Yale University 1944-45. Not exactly "exhibited" but close.

B-17F 41-24487 "Eager Beaver" First aircraft to be handed over to a school under the RFC's educational aircraft disposal program. Went to Williamsport Technical Institute, Pennsylvania. Cost $350 Sold for scrap for $175 in 1952.

B-24 "Old Number 139" (model and serial u/k but looks like a B-24H/J from the pix) Acquired by the Edsel Ford Post of the American Legion, 1945/6. Flown to Willow Run Airport, Michigan February 26, 1946. Moved by post members and exhibited in an Orchard. Scrapped 1950

How many more can we trace? I'm curious about "Old No. 139" as I found it pictured in a 1956 history book about Willow Run. I can't see any markings or serial other than a large "139" on both sides of the nose.

Rob / Kansan

[Chris Brame]

I mentioned this a year or so ago, but the Air Scouts group from the Boy Scouts of America received planes from the USAAF and the Navy after the war for educational/recruiting use. My dad said that a B-17 was flown to the Paducah, Kentucky airport (now known as Barkley Regional Airport); the crew removed the batteries and left it there as sort of an Air Scout clubhouse. It was gone by about 1950. I still haven't found out the serial.

[DryMartini]

There is a rumor about one or two B-17 fuselages
used as boy scout clubhouses, which were then buried near
Rt. 20 in Rockford, Illinois. Anyone know anything
about them?

[N3Njeff]

My father has a pic of a Grumman wildcat that was given to the boy scouts. I think it was in NH. I will ask him to dig out the pic and ask him what he knows...................yea that would make a great article.

[STEARMAN]

Dry Martini,

Would you please email at gpfister@pfisternh3.com. Someone from your group dropped by my home airport (Dacy in Harvard) and said to come by and see progress on the B-17. Just need to get contact info.

Thanks,

Greg

[CorsairFreak]

The P-61 at the NMUSAF was donated by boy scouts from SPringfield.

[Todd Hackbarth]

B-17G-110-VE 44-85794 landed at the tiny Croswell, Michigan airport in early spring of 1947. Croswell is north of Port Huron in Michigan's "Thumb". This Fortress was a very late production G model. It was delivered on 06/15/1945 and went to Rome, NY on 07/25/1945. It was assigned to the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC) at Altus, OK on 11/05/1945 for disposal. 44-85794 never saw combat nor left the U.S. It became the centerpiece of the city of Croswell's centennial celebration. It was later scrapped, date unknown.

Just 100 miles southwest of Croswell is Willow Run Airport, current day home of the Yankee Air Force's B-17G "Yankee Lady". The "Lady" is 44-85829, just 35 serial numbers higher than the Croswell aircraft.

When the YAF purchased their Fort in 1986, they started a nationwide search for parts. The story of the static display B-17 in Croswell was investigated. The museum was able to acquire the tail wheel structure and two wing flaps that had somehow survived this planes scrapping. The flaps had been mounted one on top of the other and used as a privacy fence/windbreak for someones backyard pool! Unfortunately, these parts were lost in the disasterous hangar fire that destroyed the Yankee Air Museum on October 9th, 2004.

[michael luther]

B-24 #139 was scraped by a scrap Co. gust across the street from where the bomber was on display. about 10 years ago the scrappers surplus store was still open, with the owner still alive/running it.

The owner was very informitive, and my dad and myself were able to find alot of the B-24 parts still, along with other aircraft the man had scrapped.

He had his Gov bid papers still, that showed he won the bid/scrapped-
many CG-4s, B-36s and others. He still had 2 L-5s and all the B-24 turrets, that were just bought before we got there.

This is great stuff. I must admit I thought Aerovin was exaggerating when he said hundreds of these machines were handed over - he was right, wasn't he?

Please keep the stories coming. I think there must be an article in this.

Questions:

1. What was the official status of the WAA and RFC in terms of the US Government of the day? Were they governmental organisations or organisations operating with the sanction of the US Government to dispose of unwanted material? I note in some cases machines being sold to the RFC / WAA and then being sold by the RFC/WAA (for nominal amounts) to Veterans' organisations, Boy Scouts etc.

2. Would the WAA or RFC have archived records anywhere, centrally or locally? (e.g. I'm not a long long way from Altus, OK but I don't expect there would be any extensive information at Altus AFB or the City - or would there?)

This is more interesting than I'd thought. And I was never a History major.

Rob / Kansan

[N3Njeff]

Talked to dad about the wildcat. He said that it was at the Phillips Acadmey in Exeier NH. He has a pic of it with him and his brother standing on the wing. Apparently the airplane was taken away and buried. when my father was with the VT aeronautics board in the late 70's, a man brought the control stick from the wildcat to his boss. The man also told him that the airplane had 28hrs total time!!!

[N3Njeff]

I have a shovel if anyone wants to do the research!!!

[aerovin]

Quick answers:

1. What was the official status of the WAA and RFC in terms of the US Government of the day? Were they governmental organisations or organisations operating with the sanction of the US Government to dispose of unwanted material? I note in some cases machines being sold to the RFC / WAA and then being sold by the RFC/WAA (for nominal amounts) to Veterans' organisations, Boy Scouts etc.

The RFC (Reconstruction Finance Corp.) and its successor, the WAA (War Assets Adminstration) were the disposal agencies for the U.S. government's surplus material, including aircraft. The military services transferred their excess material to the RFC/WAA for disposal.

Would the WAA or RFC have archived records anywhere, centrally or locally? (e.g. I'm not a long long way from Altus, OK but I don't expect there would be any extensive information at Altus AFB or the City - or would there?)

Many people have spent much time trying to sift out RFC/WAA aircraft records from the U.S. govt archives. Apparently a fire many years ago at a govt warehouse destroyed many of the records. Some material has surfaced and there might be more in some boxes somewhere in the federal system.

You might get ahold of the book: Military Aircraft Boneyards from Motorbooks as it has much material about this subject, and I'm sure Bill Larkins' new book will also.

Quick answers:



The RFC (Reconstruction Finance Corp.) and its successor, the WAA (War Assets Adminstration) were the disposal agencies for the U.S. government's surplus material, including aircraft. The military services transferred their excess material to the RFC/WAA for disposal.


Many people have spent much time trying to sift out RFC/WAA aircraft records from the U.S. govt archives. Apparently a fire many years ago at a govt warehouse destroyed many of the records. Some material has surfaced and there might be more in some boxes somewhere in the federal system.

You might get ahold of the book: Military Aircraft Boneyards from Motorbooks as it has much material about this subject, and I'm sure Bill Larkins' new book will also.

Merci Beaucoup, Monsieur!

That gives me a little more direction of where to go and where not to go. The Inner Librarian (my alter ego) was wondering why there was so little actually published on the subject but I guess I've got to delve a little deeper in the literature. Thanks also for the book recommendations, this is the second tme someone's recommended Military Aircraft Boneyards so I guess I should take the hint and buy it!!

*Another* fire in a government warehouse? Wouldn't be in the St.Louis area would it, and took out a bunch of US Army 201 files and more besides? I was looking at the NARA web page relating to the WAA records ( http://www.archives.gov/research/guide- ... s/270.html ) and notice that you can't see any records relating to Oklahoma or Texas anywhere.

Rob / Kansan

Talked to dad about the wildcat. He said that it was at the Phillips Acadmey in Exeier NH. He has a pic of it with him and his brother standing on the wing. Apparently the airplane was taken away and buried. when my father was with the VT aeronautics board in the late 70's, a man brought the control stick from the wildcat to his boss. The man also told him that the airplane had 28hrs total time!!!

I have a shovel if anyone wants to do the research!!!

Ah yes. Winter in New Hampshire with a shovel. (!) You wouldn't have a backhoe, magnetometer and a GPS system too would you?

Thanks,

Rob / Kansan

[Chris Brame]

Thread from the dead time, or: Grab a shovel, Igor!

There is a rumor about one or two B-17 fuselages
used as boy scout clubhouses, which were then buried near
Rt. 20 in Rockford, Illinois. Anyone know anything
about them?

Rockford Air Scouts B-17.jpg (229.31 KiB) Viewed 3390 times

Rockford Air Scouts B-17 2.jpg (137.05 KiB) Viewed 3390 times

And while we're at it, how about another?

Freeport Air Scouts B-17.jpg (234.12 KiB) Viewed 3390 times

Two more, not confirmed whether the plans were successful:

Herald_and_News_Thu__Feb_27__1947_.jpg (139.75 KiB) Viewed 3390 times

The_Los_Angeles_Times_Sun__Mar_24__1946_.jpg (105.37 KiB) Viewed 3390 times

And finally, of course:

I mentioned this a year or so ago, but the Air Scouts group from the Boy Scouts of America received planes from the USAAF and the Navy after the war for educational/recruiting use. My dad said that a B-17 was flown to the Paducah, Kentucky airport (now known as Barkley Regional Airport); the crew removed the batteries and left it there as sort of an Air Scout clubhouse. It was gone by about 1950. I still haven't found out the serial.

It took over ten years, but with the help of the son-in-law of the Air Scouts troop leader, it was verified as 42-102875.