Good Idea or Am I Nuts?

[sdennison]

So, I just finished a (soon to be released) book on my father's career in WWII as a fighter pilot centering mostly on his training at San Antonio, Waco, Moore Field and Matagorda Island before going to RTU in Talahassee to train in P-47's. It's a book that is a compilation of Dad's own letters home as well as his memoirs.

Now I am obsessed with the preservation of the basic trainer aircraft used during these years, PT-19,PT-23, PT-26, PT-22, BT-13, BT-17, AT-6, etc. I'd like to start an organization focused on and dedicated to the preservation of these planes, uh, Basic Trainers Aircraft Association. I'd like to organize events, fly-ins, etc. Offer a place to document the history, join owner/pilots, news letters, etc. etc. etc. I know there is a Fairchild Club, Stearman Club, et al but a combination?

Am I nuts? Is there value here or am I just diluting the population?

Opinions? I value all both pro and con so "have at it".

Thanks!
Scott

Last edited by sdennison on Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Steven M. Dennis]

Now I am obsessed with the preservation of the basic trainer aircraft used during these years, PT-19,PT-23, PT-26, PT-22, BT-13, BT-17, AT-6, etc.

Scott,

You know, I'm right there with you.

Count me in.....

[Forgotten Field]

The clubs out there don't focus specifically on what you are remarking about. WWII training aircraft have a very special place/position in the warbird community. They can be restored relatively inexpensively (less than 100K) are nearly economically feasible to fly, and are available for people to experience flight training WWII style. The whole training program, encompassing the CPTP, the Air Cadet's, the basic, advanced, and specialty training programs has a unique, discrete history that is overlooked. Every ace, CMH winner, bomber commander, and the many un-named wash-outs from the programs flew these aircraft. I think there is room for an organization dedicated to the history of these types of aircraft and the history surrounding them, the places they were used, and the impact they had on the aviation of the time, which in many ways was probably a deeper impact on the pilots of the days. I remember a P51 pilot telling me that his first day in combat was no scarier than his first day flying the BT13, having just watched two crash before taking his first familiarization ride in one.

[vanguard]

count me in. I am a big fan of and owner of a primary trainer. Its about time.

[tom d. friedman]

scott, i tried to down load the disc you sent, but my computer wouldn't accept it. any hints, short cuts, etc??? perhaps it's my virus program / firewall?? i'm anxious to review it, infact, i made it a point to do so on my day off with no success. sorry, tom

[sdennison]

Thanks for the input and support. Glad to see that there appears to be a real interest out there. I know we are a "special" group but you know, 500,000 guys went through the same process before separating from single engine to twin engine advanced training. So, I'm guessing that there are a sh*tload of guys who remember or whose families would like to know what went on. In addition, you're correct that these "beginner" warbirds are more economical to restore, maintain, and fly than the big birds, but without our trainers, no one would know how to fly the profile birds. Dad recalled in his memoirs when he was in advanced with the P-40 coming out of class and his instructor saying, "Let's watch this guy take off. He is in his final 10 hours of training." The guy proceeded to lift off and then roll onto his back and crash. The instructor said, "Okay, let's go talk about that."

I am biased and devoted to the trainers (as these are the only ones I will ever hope to own and fly) and hope to share my passion with others.

How many respondents are actual owner/pilots and would participate in such an organization?

Keep it coming lads (& ladesses)

Thanks,
Scott

[Tulio]

Interesting idea, and please include me in.

Saludos,


Tulio

[Dan K]

Alas, count me in as well, Steve!

(Just one more cheesehead united for the advancement of things PT, BT, & AT)

[Randy Haskin]

his instructor saying, "Let's watch this guy take off. He is in his final 10 hours of training." The guy proceeded to lift off and then roll onto his back and crash. The instructor said, "Okay, let's go talk about that."

WOW.

Talk about having object lessons to teach with!

[Eureka181]

I like this idea! Most of the time attention is toward the fighters and bombers like the B-17 and P-51. But these trainers deserve just as much attention!

I'll join your organization.

Eric

[sdennison]

You guys have some great ideas. I don't think that any trainer should not be included. I think though that the T-28 and 33,34, etc. guys may choose to stay more closely aligned with the "big boys" but all would be welcome, any age, any aircraft as long as it fit the role.

Now, what's the best way to find all the registered owners of our target group as without them, we can have a pretty cool group but not much to display, eh? Can you search the FAA registrations by aircraft type like you can N number?

[Dan K]

Yes!

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/defimg.asp

Have fun exploring the database. Let us know how else we might assist you.

[jhor9]

I am not an owner or involved with aircraft, however I might be able to answer some questions, since I went through the cadet program in 1942. I flew the PT- 17 Stearman, BT-13 and thr AT-10.Then a tour of 50 sorties in the B-17.

Great idea Scott

[sdennison]

Okay, I know I'm just starting. Here's from the FAA registration as provided by DanK (thanks Dude!) currently registered aircraft. Note that I have not checked on each individual plane to see it's current condition. Let me know more aircraft that I have missed for starters.

Fairchilld PT-19 - 15
PT-23 - 4
PT-26 - 25
M-62 - 664 (could be some overlap with PT's) "updated"
Ryan PT-22 - 23
Vultee/Consolidated BT-13 - 310 "updated"
Boeing PT-13 - 42
B75N1 - 337
PT-17 - 73
NAF N3N - 213
North American T6 - 138
SNJ-4 - 65
Harvard So how are these registered?
deHavilland DHC-1 - 118
DH-82 - 12
North American T-28 - 365
Timm N2T - 29 "updated"

Lockheed T-33 - 63
Beech T-34 - 111
Cessna T-37 - 6
Northrop T-38 - 39
Cessna T-41 - 7
Cessna UC-78 - 32
Beech AT-11 - 72

So, additions, corrections, comments, snide remarks?

Name: Basic Trainer Aircraft Association? others?

Thanks, I really want to make this something everyone who love the trainers can be a part of.

Scott

Last edited by sdennison on Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

[Dan K]

Hi Scott,

Better not forget the Timm Tutor!

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/a ... /tutor.htm

In fact, one of the few still flyable is based down the road from you in Watertown, owned by one John Drews. John has also restored a PT-23 and BT-13 over the years.

Speaking of bases, I can't help but anticipate where a first gathering would be held. Something that has become increasingly popular are the mass fly-ups to Airventure at OSH of certain types of aircraft. These groups typically assemble at other Wisconsin airports (in some cases hold brief seminars, barbeques, and/or FAST clinics) and then head on their merry way to OSH. I'm sure you're familiar with what NATA does at Kenosha during the days prior to Airventure. I think you could really generate some interest by holding something similar for the PT/BT guys & gals at another location.