any wrecks worth mentioning re: falklands war of the 80"

[FAH 619]

Falklands Folks:

How exactly the Argies went about to ID their kill markings on their aircraft is unclear. The link below shows an unid ship plus the HMS Invencible as targets. Photo Aeromilitar Arg/Carlos Ay Via C/w.com

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/g ... 357680.jpg

Last edited by FAH 619 on Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[RMAllnutt]

The Argentineans did initially think that they had hit Invincible, as the pilot thought he had done so, and made the claim. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Invincible was ever hit. The world would have known very quickly had it been so. It is, in all probability, that the claim was made because it would boost morale amongst the Argentinean pilots. They did mark one of their Super Etendards with an Invincible hit at the time. It never happened though, and with all of the evidence available contradicting it 23 years on, I find it rather strange that anyone would persist in believing that it did. Two Exocets hit Sheffield, and two hit Atlantic Conveyer. The fifth and final Exocet was not fired.... so how do you come to the conclusion that Invincible was hit by one?

Richard

[FAH 619]

RMALLnut:

Rg! That clears the waters a bit. We are only showing the Argie pics sent to us sometime ago. We are still digging for more! Tks

[needle]

As this is my first posting here, please bear with me if I inadvertently upset someone, but I felt I must post something regarding the Exocet missiles and the Falklands war.

It has been stated that 4 Exocet missiles out of the 5 that were available to the Argentineans hit 2 ships (2 on HMS Sheffied, and 2 on Atlantic Conveyor.)

No account has been taken of the Exocet missile that hit the destroyer HMS Glamorgan, and this missile was believed to have been ground launched from Stanley in the Falkland Islands.

Below is the extract from from the diaries of Air Chief Marshal Sir Peter Squire, Chief of the Air Staff, who at the time of the Falklands War was a Squadron Leader, my commanding officer at No. 1 (F) squadron. (And a darn good pilot and boss.)

"Sunday June 6th

Another poor weather day, this time over the Blands and only one operational sortie flown, another sortie looking for the land-launched Exocet which hit Glamorgan as she left the gun line a couple of days earlier. In fact the launcher is mobile but we attack known positions on Stanley Common at the same time as doing a photo-recce”.

This sortie was flown using No. 1(F) squadron harriers from HMS Hermes and was led by Sdn Ldr Squire. He was accompanied by Flt Lt. Mike Beech from No.3(F) squadron, RAF, who had arrived from Ascension Island on the 1st June.

Just wanted to clarify the Exocet issue, and ensure that the 12 sailors who lost their lives on HMS Glamorgan are not forgotten.

I also want to indicate that this was no small incident for those of us in the British armed forces at the time, and that although an insignificant affair to most foreigners, many brave servicemen on both sides gave their ultimate sacrifice for their country.

Thank you,

"Needle"

[RickH]

Thanks, Nick and Rob. I was thinking it might have been the SAC bird but just couldn't remember.

[needle]

Just a quick correction to my previous post, before my RAF pension goes out the window.

I inadvertantly gave my CO the rank of Squadron Leader.
He was actually a Wing Commander. Sorry Sir.

"Needle"

[RMAllnutt]

"Needle" - many thanks for reminding us of the land-launched exocet attack against HMS Glamorgan, it had, sadly, slipped my mind. When I referred to the Exocet, I was thinking of the five air-launched examples the Aregentinean's had. The attack on HMS Glamorgan was a very grim affair indeed. To be honest I am amazed that more ships were not lost during the conflict... it really was a very close run thing when you think back on it! Many thanks for joining the conversation, and I hope that you continue to contribute. No. 1 Squadron played a very important part in the Falklands campaign. Were you there at the time, or did you serve later?

Rob, many thanks for the synopsis on air-losses. Not to be pedantic, but the FAH is more commonly associated with the Honduran Air Force. I am unaware of an Argentinean air arm designated as the FAH. Ironically, the Argentinean Air Force was also referred to as the FAA (Fuerza Aerea Argentina), just like the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm. I also remember reading that several Argentinean aircraft were lost due to running out of fuel on the return leg, and didn't see them mentioned. Does anyone know the details about these losses?

Cheers,
Richard

Last edited by RMAllnutt on Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

[RMAllnutt]

Hi Rob... that's interesting. I can find no reference to the FAH with respect to Argentina. Could you tell me where you found this reference, as I am very curious?

Cheers,
Richard

[RMAllnutt]

Also missing from the list of aircraft losses is the Sea King which was swallowed by a wave in very bad weather. I forget the date, but there were about 21 killed if I remember correctly, mostly from an SAS unit returning from a mission. There was only one survivor, and one part of his story has stayed riveted in my mind. After the helicopter crashed and was well below the surface he managed to make his way through a hatch. Just as he thought he was about to get out, he was caught around the leg by some heavy strapping... he struggled but couldn't get out. He then felt someone grab his leg, and the unmistakeable feeling of someone cutting his leg free with their knife. He then bobbed to the surface, but his rescuer never did. I cannot imagine a more unselfish act of bravery. It still gives me chills thinking of it!

Richard

Last edited by RMAllnutt on Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

[RMAllnutt]

Cheers Rob, it's always good to hear from you... I guess that it was just a typo on their part, it's easily done. I am still trying to wrack my brains to figure out what the H stood for, if indeed there was an argentinean unit named FAH.



Richard

[Manonthefence]

May 4 FAA Sea Harriers shot down by SAM

A small correction it was a single Sea Harrier on May 4th. Killing the Pilot.

However on May 6th two Sea Harriers were lost in bad weather (presumably by collision) Both pilots were lost

Richard, with regards to the Sea King, both Pilots got out but no-one down the back did, they were not all SAS men They had a member of the Royal Signals and the only RAF man killed in the War with them as well.

[airnutz]

I forget the date, but there were about 21 killed if I remember correctly, mostly from an SAS unit returning from a mission.

Richard

Being that they were SAS...are their names public knowledge?

[Tulio]

For a photo of the trailer-mounted Exocet, follow this link, and scroll down the page once there:

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/jfq1605.pdf


Some of the most commonly used terms:


FAA = Fuerza Aerea Argentina

COAN = Comando de la Aviacion Naval (it is not
"CANA" as has been used by some english language publications and websites)

PNA = Prefectura Naval Argentina (Coast Guard)

IGN = Instituto Geografico Nacional.
IGM = Instituto Geografico Militar.

The Learjet shot down, was IIRC, from the IGN.

Saludos,


Tulio

[RMAllnutt]

I've just done a little research and found out that MotF, myself, and Rob were all a little mistaken about the helicopter crash with the SAS patrol on board.

It happened on 19th May, and was most likely due to bird ingestion. It was a Sea King, not a Wessex. 22 men lost their lives, 18 of them SAS, 1 RAF, 1 Royal Signals, 1 ?, so my memory was pretty good there. However, there were nine survivors (which I am very glad to hear, considering I had only remembered one, and MotF two). The details are at this site... (scroll down to "Sea King crash".)

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/sas.htm

Cheers, R.

[FAH 619]

RMAllnut/Needle:

Tks for the latest data/inputs. Looking for the following data:

1. Pictures or the Argie Sub "Santa Fe" that end up on a beach due to poss mechanical problems.

2. There is a story of UK Special Ops folks who were trying to infiltrate by helicopter via Chile the back door of S. Argentina. One of them crashed. Was this helicopter ever recovered? tks