TIGHAR?

[David Billings]

For k5dh:

Dean, exotic holidays to far away Island places maybe... Their time on the last one was spent on a boat and only some few members ventured onto the Island of Nikumaroro for about an hour to get their ration of Vitamin D.

The last Tighar Expedition cost US$2.21 Million and the unpaid "hotel" bill (if you like) stands at US$400,000.00.

There are some very nice pictures of fish swimming down on the coral face of the island where Tighar say the Electra "should be" and amongst the coral rocks in the film clips, the apostles of Tighar can see Instruments, Switches, Headsets, Radio Control Boxes, Levers, Fuel Tank Caps, etcetera, etcetera.

I can see Coral rocks out of the result of this Hypothesis.

Around US$7.5 Million spent so far on "The Tighar Hypothesis".

[PinecastleAAF]

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... l?page=all

“Amelia’s fame is like a faucet I can turn on and off with a press release”

[David Billings]

The "Faucet" statement....

It sure is a cocksure statement. Arrogance ? Usury ? Being disrespectful to the subject oerson he is supposed to be looking for ?
It certainly doesn't sound right and jars with anybody keenly interested in the Earhart Mystery.

Despite Mr. Wilkinson's proud admiration for Mr. Gillespie, there are those that see the sharp side of Mr Gillespie in his retorts.
Even to his own disciples he can be quick with the tongue and his control of those who would argue with the almighty Tighar Hypothesis soon see the shutters come down and verges on the despotic.

As a statement, the "Faucet" statement is demeaning.... in the extreme.

[Forgotten Field]

A young congressional staffer asked Senator Joe McCarthy- just about the time his star was beginning to rise- when he had really first discovered all the communists in government. He told her "6 weeks ago." Historians have come to suspect that what he meant was the first post-pronouncement Wisconsin election poll after he made the speech in West Virginia about communists (a speech the recording of which was lost). Basically, his approval rating went up 25 points. That just about re-assured his re-election, which was in doubt beforehand.

I had a friend who is pretty well-off and highly connected politically ask me about a guy who was off somewhere in Indonesia doing "recovery" work. I'd never heard his name, and he was out to raise only $25,000. The thing is, all of us (and I don't just mean those here at WIX) have great sentiment about "returning heroes home." That is a very easy market to tap into, and since the idea of stomping around the jungle desperately searching for remains seems to be a nearly impossible yet noble task for most people, they readily and enthusiastically donate- without being critical of what they are getting for their money.

I equate this Amelia search to the MIA/POW stuff that went on in the 1970's, 1980's. That reached up to very high levels in our government, made for good politics (as-in, it's an issue that trumps real issues and builds easy credibility), and produced its share of frauds. There were actual privately funded missions sent into Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand that cost millions of dollars collectively, all financed by people who had a very profound belief that they were doing some good. There were claims that people were still alive and ready to come home. Movies were made with Chuck Norris and Sylvester Stallone. There are still MIA/POW flags flying over many places in the US. And how many live MIA/POW's did we find? None! (I have to qualify this statement- I personally do believe that there were some held after re-patriation officially ended)

Before that, people pursued the lost city of gold and Braddock's gold. Communists (there were actually some found- Alger Hiss being one), Satanists, Alcohol (remember Prohibition?), Game show corruption, etc., have occupied the public's attention and garnered reputation and money for many people at various times. Amelia Earhart is one of those issues. The movie was made- Hillary Swank was hot- and more money went to the guy who appears (through very well-crafted self promotion) to be the best chance. POOF! Piles of money. Is anybody really surprised?

This is no disrespect to WIX, but you can easily see that there are plenty of people out there who would exploit gut issues like missing kids, MIA/POW's, and Amelia Earhart for their own personal good. If you writhe in your computer chair watching it, the only solution is a congressional investigation or some other such very public, very well advertised public airing of the issue. But TIGHAR will probably be there and get publicly vetted with 50% saying he's a fraud, and 50% thinking he's Amelia's last best hope. It's just the way these things work.

As for the faucet statement- I liken it to the 47% statement of a certain recent public figure. It was good, it was bad, it was used against him, it was used for him. No matter what you think, it was tasteless...

[K5DH]

Dean, exotic holidays to far away Island places maybe... Their time on the last one was spent on a boat

Sounds kinda like a voyage on a cruise ship, doesn't it?

some few members ventured onto the Island of Nikumaroro for about an hour to get their ration of Vitamin D.

And that sounds kinda like a shore excursion from that cruise ship, eh?

Around US$7.5 Million spent so far on "The Tighar Hypothesis".

And still they have nothing to show for it.

YMMV, but to me, TIGHAR's credibility is very near zero. If they ever find conclusive evidence, I'll publicly apologize for bashing them. But they gotta come up with something believable first.

[petef86a]

For God's sake Andrew, don't feed the troll!

Yes TIGHAR seems better at PR and fundraising than most of us and they are working a long shot. However, the truth is that these boards are filled with armchair wreckchasers who do little but "remote view" and dream of getting rich by recovering an intact wreck somewhere.

Tommorrow I will head into the field alone, again, because most outspoken voices on here are scared to death of the brush and lack the patience to conduct search operations. Unless they can drive to it or walk a short distance with GPS coordinates from someone who's already found it, they aren't interested.

I know exactly how much "field time" and finds a certain troll from these parts has (very little) and yes he has claimed ownership of nearly everything any of us ever located and quoted volumes of non-existant or mis-constructed laws that we broke by enjoying our hobby.

Yes it is just that.... a hobby. If it would pay cool, but we need to stop taking ourselves too seriously!

[ZRX61]

I've known Ric Gillespie for 30 years, and "The Inspector's" moronic assessment of somebody he has never met, I'm sure, is exactly the kind of response the original poster specifically said he didn't need. I really don't want to get into the kind of discussion that erupts on this forum whenever the subject of Tighar comes up, but I would be happy to discuss the issue by e-mail or even phone with anybody interested.

Since I despise the cowardice of anonymity on the 'Net, my name is Stephan Wilkinson, I've been writing for Air & Space Smithsonian since I did the cover story ("Biplanes") for the very first issue, and I'm a constant contributor to Aviation History Magazine. My e-mail address is stephwilkinson@verizon.net, and I may even know a bit more about Tighar than some of the self-elected experts on this forum, having written about them (sometimes negatively) for many years.

Excellent, perhaps you could post some photos of aircraft they have actually recovered?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

As I said in my original post, I'm not going to get into a micturating match on this forum, which too quickly turns nasty and spiteful, but as I did say in a lengthy exchange with a member who did accept my offer to contact me privately--he ultimately said he was quite satisfied with and convinced by my extensive reply to him--here's an answer to your request for photos.

It's unfortunate that a young couple in their late 20s originally naively named the "organization" (which in fact was just the two of them, Ric Gillespie and Pat Thrasher) "The International Group for Historic Aircraft RECOVERY." They actually, and again naively, thought they were going to organize the recovery of a B-17 from New Guinea, which never happened. (At least not for them; the airplane has since been recovered by somebody else.) Had they been able to look far into the future, they might have chosen to name the group "Test" (The Earhart Search Team) rather than "Tighar," but who knew?

So you're quite right, they haven't actually recovered any aircraft, though in the early days they looked hard--and I was one of the searchers--for l'Oiseau Blanc--and have at least located several other wreck sites. But you're putting too much emphasis on a name--Tighar--that I suspect they may today regret having chosen, since their focus has so strongly shifted.

Please don't waste your doubtless valuable time--and I mean that--arguing with me about this on the forum, though my offer to communicate politely and personally still stands. Oh, and do use your real name if you do...

[The Inspector]

SW,
Let me take this time after a preponderance of opinions that seem to run in the same vein as my original assessment, to say how much I appreciate your public apology for publicly calling me a m o r o n, OH, you haven't? that tells me a great deal.

[PinecastleAAF]

Regarding the various theories on what happened excepting the New Guinea angle, I think it is a mistake to assume the aircraft came to rest intact either on Gardner or the reef or the bottom of the ocean somewhere. For all we know they hit the ocean inverted at 160mph after running out of gas and scattered pieces everywhere that would be practically impossible to locate by any means. That's a big ocean out there. I always felt Tighar should have made Flight 19 a priority, it seems a lot more solvable to me than AE and FN.

[David Billings]

Apologies from Mr. Wilkinson....

For the Inspector:

I think you have "Buckley's Chance" of an apology Inspector, forever thou shalt be known by him as a "individual of questionable judgement", just as I was called a "Dilbert in a cubicle" and "an armchair researcher" (his favourite insult). I too have been waiting for an apology after it became known to him, quite swiftly, that I do actually put boots on the ground in East New Britain looking for an old, all-metal twin-engined wreck in the Jungle. Alas, I wait in vain. You see, Mr. Wilkinson has done "absolutely everything" in aviation, considers himself above all of us and apologises to no-one.

For Pinecastle:

Thankyou very much for even mentioning the New Britain angle. Much appreciated.

Regards,

Dave Billings

Last edited by David Billings on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[brucev]

Regarding the various theories on what happened excepting the New Guinea angle, I think it is a mistake to assume the aircraft came to rest intact either on Gardner or the reef or the bottom of the ocean somewhere. For all we know they hit the ocean inverted at 160mph after running out of gas and scattered pieces everywhere that would be practically impossible to locate by any means. That's a big ocean out there. I always felt Tighar should have made Flight 19 a priority, it seems a lot more solvable to me than AE and FN.

completely agree.

and speaking of Flight 19 and at risk of thread derailment, what became of the Avenger raised in 1991? http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43094

[Dan Jones]

Years ago I read a biography of Paul Mantz, and in it the author claimed that Mantz didn't think much of Earhart's abilities as a pilot. How accurate or not that is I don't know, but lost, out of sight of land, and running out of gas I wouldn't automatically assume that she followed the most practical course of action - even with Noonan's urgings. For my money they ditched, probably not real far from Howland, and perished at sea. The only person who's got a chance of finding that airplane is Bob Ballard.

But, that's just me.

Dan

[The Inspector]

Apologies from Mr. Wilkinson....

For the Inspector:

I think you have "Buckley's Chance" of an apology Inspector, forever thou shalt be known by him as a "individual of questionable judgement", just as I was called a "Dilbert in a cubicle" and "an armchair researcher" (his favourite insult). I too have been waiting for an apology after it became known to him, quite swiftly, that I do actually put boots on the ground in East New Britain looking for an old, all-metal twin-engined wreck in the Jungle. Alas, I wait in vain. You see, Mr. Wilkinson has done "absolutely everything" in aviation, considers himself above all of us and apologises to no-one.

For Pinecastle:

Thankyou very much for even mentioning the New Britain angle. Much appreciated.

Regards,

Dave Billings

Dave,
I NEVER expected an apology from 'Himself' but I waited for the preponderance of opinions to be floated before PUBLICLY seeking redress, so 'Himself' continues to slide down lower in my personal assessment of his interpersonal skills. Whenever I've goofed, I've made sure to issue a mea Culpa and an apology so I guess it's just a character fault on my part, darned parents and their manners training-

[Mark_Pilkington]

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration/Shes-Still-Out-There-20120701.html?page=all

“Amelia’s fame is like a faucet I can turn on and off with a press release”

The BEST article on TIGGER I have ever read, the quote above is just one of many that resonate with many of the comments made in this thread and others on this forum and elsewhere!

TIGHAR’s mix of tantalizing evidence and fundraising hype has been on display since the group’s first Nikumaroro expedition in 1989, when researchers found a metal bookcase that Gillespie believed came from Earhart’s plane. TIGHAR spent more than a year pushing the idea that the object was, according to Gillespie, “the grail,” even soliciting FBI analysis of the box’s metal and paint. An FBI investigator said the agency had found nothing to “disqualify this artifact as having come from the Earhart aircraft,” which isn’t quite the same thing as confirmation. But to Gillespie it sounded like proof. As he told one reporter: “We’ve got the first artifact ever alleged to be from Earhart’s aircraft that has passed muster—passed expert examination.”

Two years later, detailed analysis by TIGHAR showed that the box likely came from a World War II–era bomber. By then, however, Gillespie had refocused public attention on finds from TIGHAR’s 1991 expedition: a piece of aluminum aircraft skin and fragments from a 1930s size 9 shoe. “We will present proof that the Earhart mystery has been solved,” Gillespie told the Houston Post in advance of a press conference in Washington, D.C. Soon after, engineers tore holes in Gillespie’s theory that the aluminum matched Earhart’s plane, and the shoe turned out to be about three sizes too large to be Amelia’s.

Asked about these old instances of crying wolf, Gillespie claims there’s still a preponderance of evidence that points to Nikumaroro as Earhart’s final destination, saying that “every great scientific thing involves lots of trial and error.”

Whereas other Amelia searchers are secretive about their expeditions, Gillespie announces his months in advance, in order to attract money and volunteers. Gillespie and his wife, Pat Thrasher, are the only paid employees

So which is it? Is Gillespie a dogged researcher on the verge of unlocking one of the world’s great mysteries, or a skilled pitchman who has lured the State Department into his personal crusade? The 1937 landing-gear photo could prove to be a game changer, but it also seems to fit TIGHAR’s pattern of turning up the volume on evidence that may or may not be significant.

Last year, Gillespie had a chance meeting with Assistant Secretary of State for Asia and the Pacific Islands Kurt Campbell, an Earhart buff; they discussed the image, and Campbell offered to have government photo analysts study it. In a briefing on March 19, the day before the triumphant State Department event, another senior official summarized that analysis: “This is consistent with what looks to be a wheel of an Electra 10E at the time that Amelia Earhart flew.” But, the official noted, “this is all highly speculative.”
That hasn’t stopped Gillespie from sounding the alarm, which, he readily admits, is a key part of the strategy for a non-profit run out of his garage in Wilmington, Delaware. “Amelia’s fame is like a faucet I can turn on and off with a press release,” he says.

His willingness to crank that faucet rubs some people the wrong way. “I’m a little jaded that Ric has done these things over and over again,” says David Jourdan, the president of Maine-based Nauticos, a TIGHAR competitor that is planning a 2013 expedition elsewhere in the South Pacific to look for Earhart. “He gets everyone spun up about something new—the bones, the photo, whatever. They start with a premise that Amelia made it to this island, and then they seek data that supports it.”

Tom D. Crouch, a senior curator at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, has long been skeptical of TIGHAR’s Nikumaroro theory but can’t help admiring the group’s approach. “It’s worked over a long period of time,” says Crouch. “They keep going back to the island, and they’re always able to do something new to keep interest alive. Sometimes they make claims that are over the edge, but it keeps the money coming in.”

The only thing missing with TIGHAR, of course, is the discovery—something Gillespie hopes to remedy this month when he sails alongside sonar technicians, TIGHAR volunteers, camera crews, and one generous donor who gave the group $1 million. Also on board will be a 1,000-pound autonomous underwater vehicle that will scan the island’s reef slope. If he finds Earhart’s plane, Gillespie doesn’t plan to retrieve it immediately. “Our objective is to come back with imagery and a location,” he says. Eventually, TIGHAR hopes to raise the aircraft from the ocean floor and donate it to the Smithsonian. Crouch, for his part, isn’t holding his breath. “I think it could remain a mystery for a lot longer,” he says

I think that article summarises it for me, an excellent fund raiser who is paid for his efforts, and from his raised funds, and has a hypothesis and is trying to find evidence to back fit to support it, and calls wolf prematurely and constantly cashes in on the Earhart name and fame to raise funds to keep searching, and keep him being paid.

It reminds me of the TV Evangelist industry in the US that we see invoking the name of "God and Jesus" and then displaying the PO Box to send your cheques to, to allow them to enjoy their rich lives, and "keep doing their good work".

I also suspect this will remain a mystery for a lot longer and do not expect to see any Lockheed parts recovered from the sea around Nikumaroro, coral encrusted or not.

regards

Mark Pilkington