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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:09 pm 
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Mark_Pilkington wrote:
PinecastleAAF wrote:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration/Shes-Still-Out-There-20120701.html?page=all

“Amelia’s fame is like a faucet I can turn on and off with a press release”



The BEST article on TIGGER I have ever read, the quote above is just one of many that resonate with many of the comments made in this thread and others on this forum and elsewhere!

Quote:
TIGHAR’s mix of tantalizing evidence and fundraising hype has been on display since the group’s first Nikumaroro expedition in 1989, when researchers found a metal bookcase that Gillespie believed came from Earhart’s plane. TIGHAR spent more than a year pushing the idea that the object was, according to Gillespie, “the grail,” even soliciting FBI analysis of the box’s metal and paint. An FBI investigator said the agency had found nothing to “disqualify this artifact as having come from the Earhart aircraft,” which isn’t quite the same thing as confirmation. But to Gillespie it sounded like proof. As he told one reporter: “We’ve got the first artifact ever alleged to be from Earhart’s aircraft that has passed muster—passed expert examination.”

Two years later, detailed analysis by TIGHAR showed that the box likely came from a World War II–era bomber. By then, however, Gillespie had refocused public attention on finds from TIGHAR’s 1991 expedition: a piece of aluminum aircraft skin and fragments from a 1930s size 9 shoe. “We will present proof that the Earhart mystery has been solved,” Gillespie told the Houston Post in advance of a press conference in Washington, D.C. Soon after, engineers tore holes in Gillespie’s theory that the aluminum matched Earhart’s plane, and the shoe turned out to be about three sizes too large to be Amelia’s.

Asked about these old instances of crying wolf, Gillespie claims there’s still a preponderance of evidence that points to Nikumaroro as Earhart’s final destination, saying that “every great scientific thing involves lots of trial and error.”



Quote:
Whereas other Amelia searchers are secretive about their expeditions, Gillespie announces his months in advance, in order to attract money and volunteers. Gillespie and his wife, Pat Thrasher, are the only paid employees



Quote:
So which is it? Is Gillespie a dogged researcher on the verge of unlocking one of the world’s great mysteries, or a skilled pitchman who has lured the State Department into his personal crusade? The 1937 landing-gear photo could prove to be a game changer, but it also seems to fit TIGHAR’s pattern of turning up the volume on evidence that may or may not be significant.


Quote:
Last year, Gillespie had a chance meeting with Assistant Secretary of State for Asia and the Pacific Islands Kurt Campbell, an Earhart buff; they discussed the image, and Campbell offered to have government photo analysts study it. In a briefing on March 19, the day before the triumphant State Department event, another senior official summarized that analysis: “This is consistent with what looks to be a wheel of an Electra 10E at the time that Amelia Earhart flew.” But, the official noted, “this is all highly speculative.”
That hasn’t stopped Gillespie from sounding the alarm, which, he readily admits, is a key part of the strategy for a non-profit run out of his garage in Wilmington, Delaware. “Amelia’s fame is like a faucet I can turn on and off with a press release,” he says.


Quote:
His willingness to crank that faucet rubs some people the wrong way. “I’m a little jaded that Ric has done these things over and over again,” says David Jourdan, the president of Maine-based Nauticos, a TIGHAR competitor that is planning a 2013 expedition elsewhere in the South Pacific to look for Earhart. “He gets everyone spun up about something new—the bones, the photo, whatever. They start with a premise that Amelia made it to this island, and then they seek data that supports it.”



Quote:
Tom D. Crouch, a senior curator at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, has long been skeptical of TIGHAR’s Nikumaroro theory but can’t help admiring the group’s approach. “It’s worked over a long period of time,” says Crouch. “They keep going back to the island, and they’re always able to do something new to keep interest alive. Sometimes they make claims that are over the edge, but it keeps the money coming in.”



Quote:
The only thing missing with TIGHAR, of course, is the discovery—something Gillespie hopes to remedy this month when he sails alongside sonar technicians, TIGHAR volunteers, camera crews, and one generous donor who gave the group $1 million. Also on board will be a 1,000-pound autonomous underwater vehicle that will scan the island’s reef slope. If he finds Earhart’s plane, Gillespie doesn’t plan to retrieve it immediately. “Our objective is to come back with imagery and a location,” he says. Eventually, TIGHAR hopes to raise the aircraft from the ocean floor and donate it to the Smithsonian. Crouch, for his part, isn’t holding his breath. “I think it could remain a mystery for a lot longer,” he says



I think that article summarises it for me, an excellent fund raiser who is paid for his efforts, and from his raised funds, and has a hypothesis and is trying to find evidence to back fit to support it, and calls wolf prematurely and constantly cashes in on the Earhart name and fame to raise funds to keep searching, and keep him being paid.

It reminds me of the TV Evangelist industry in the US that we see invoking the name of "God and Jesus" and then displaying the PO Box to send your cheques to, to allow them to enjoy their rich lives, and "keep doing their good work".

I also suspect this will remain a mystery for a lot longer and do not expect to see any Lockheed parts recovered from the sea around Nikumaroro, coral encrusted or not.

regards

Mark Pilkington



Yeah, but like George Carlin used to say, 'If God wants your money, he'll come and get it, he won't send some A $ $ hole in a sharp suit'

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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Somebody mentioned Bob Ballard- I'd be willing to bet (speaking as someone who was riveted to his expeditions to find the Titanic and who thought he hung the moon as a kid) that if you gave Ballard the same $$$ that TIGHAR has spent thus far on its search, Ballard would have found it by now. Frankly, I'm not sure he cares that much. When he's wanted to find something, history has proven he's pretty darn successful.

I think that if there is a deep-pocket donor out there who truly wants to find AE, they need to cut a big check to Bob Ballard and send him fishing.

kevin

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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Quote:
The BEST article on TIGGER I have ever read, the quote above is just one of many that resonate with many of the comments made in this thread and others on this forum and elsewhere!



I agree, and the faucet quote is pure gold.

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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:39 am 
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Mr. Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

"It's unfortunate that a young couple in their late 20s originally naively named the "organization" (which in fact was just the two of them, Ric Gillespie and Pat Thrasher) "The International Group for Historic Aircraft RECOVERY." They actually, and again naively, thought they were going to organize the recovery of a B-17 from New Guinea, which never happened. (At least not for them; the airplane has since been recovered by somebody else.) Had they been able to look far into the future, they might have chosen to name the group "Test" (The Earhart Search Team) rather than "Tighar," but who knew?

So you're quite right, they haven't actually recovered any aircraft, though in the early days they looked hard--and I was one of the searchers--for l'Oiseau Blanc--and have at least located several other wreck sites. But you're putting too much emphasis on a name--Tighar--that I suspect they may today regret having chosen, since their focus has so strongly shifted.

Please don't waste your doubtless valuable time--and I mean that--arguing with me about this on the forum, though my offer to communicate politely and personally still stands. Oh, and do use your real name if you do...
"

Good information but part of it is incorrect....

I class it as somewhat of a "blowhard" practice to call something an International Group when there are two Stateside "domestic" people forming "the Group".... as to the "recovery" part of the grandiose title, they have had plenty of time to change it to something more discreet. Maybe they did have plans to recover an aircraft and if, if Mr. Wilkinson, you are referring to the B-17 euphemistically referred to as "The Swamp Ghost", as the recovery subject, I am afraid you have that wrong. The B-17 that he was looking at was in the Markham Valley in PNG, the Markham River being the river that flows out to sea near to LAE.

The story that is told in Papua New Guinea surrounding that goes as per the following and is alleged to have ended in a result with a door closing... Viz: Our hero was intending to disassemble the Markham Valley B-17 which was basically intact but had suffered from grass fire damage. Whilst doing so, a Police Constable on a bicycle hove into view and collared said hero and eventually said hero was asked to leave the country. As everyone knows in PNG, a War Wreck is untouchable without permission and said hero apparently did not have required permit. That is what is alleged to have happened. I do not believe said hero ever visited The Swamp Ghost but he was involved as "an expert" in the discussions and delaying tactics which somewhat infuriated the eventual salvors.

Maybe, Mr. Wilkinson, you would like to pray and to ask guidance from above from the White Bird's flight crew as to where the bird rests but I doubt they will answer from their lofty perch after you described them as "...two loony Frenchmen...". It works both ways, Mr. Wilkinson.

Well, my real name is David Billings and I head up the East New Britain Project which is a search for a non-combatant, all-metal, twin-engined aircraft in the Jungle, which evidence tells us has the Construction No. "1055"........

Regards,

Dave Billings


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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:10 pm 
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David Billings wrote:
Maybe they did have plans to recover an aircraft and if, if Mr. Wilkinson, you are referring to the B-17 euphemistically referred to as "The Swamp Ghost", as the recovery subject, I am afraid you have that wrong.


Actually, I'm afraid Stephen has it exactly right. Ric Gillespie did indeed visit the "Swamp Ghost" in April, 1986 (though it was then referred to alternately as "The Lady in Waiting," "The Agiambo E," or simply "2446") via helicopter and in company with Bruce Hoy of the PNG Museum.

http://www.theswampghost.com/photos/1986/index.html

He is most definitely not the "hero" of your Markham Valley story.


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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:45 pm 
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TB Dude,

Yes, you are correct (as is SW) about the visit to the Swamp Ghost.... Mea Culpa. I had forgotten about the ride in with Bruce Hoy in a chopper. I just didn't have the vision of Richard Gillespie wading through the swamp. I would not have expected him to consider recovering that one anyway, due to the difficulty and back then the PNG Government were not considering letting it go.

As for the early story concerning the near-complete B-17 in the Markham Valley kunai grass, that is the story which exists about the Constable on a bicycle. Richard Gillespie did stay at Lae in a hotel, he says that himself on the early Forum and the Markham Valley B-17 is or was near Lae. The only other crash site I know of in the immediate Lae area is a B-24 on the top of a 1500 foot flat hilltop near Pari Village which blew up on contact with the hill.

Dave Billings


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 Post subject: Re: TIGHAR?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Let me ask this: What about TIGHAR's fundraising methods? By that I mean, what is an appropriate level publicity raising and donation seeking? If you're going to attempt something on the scale they have, you have to get money somehow. Hypothetically, assuming that TIGHAR had whatever evidence they needed to convince you that they really had found Amelia's crash site, would their current level of fundraising effort be appropriate?

Maybe I'm trying to separate two issues that are truly completely inseparable (i.e. If we know their theory is correct, why would we not support them?), but I think that I should at least try asking. A better way to put it might be to think of your favorite warbird related project, whatever that may be. I'm guessing that the majority of these could not accomplish their goal without some sort of outside financial support. What would be the appropriate level of donation seeking for them? Again, maybe I'm missing the point here, (i.e. I doubt any of these other projects seek to try and prove any contentious theories.), but also again I think I should at least pose the question.

If you believe in a cause, you're going to try as hard as you can to see it through. Now, assuming that Mr. Gillespie (or anyone else) really does believe in what he is doing, and is not in it for only personal gain, can you fault him for all the PR he's engaged in?

In sum, my question is: Are people only faulting his funding methods because they believe his theory is wrong? I'm trying to make sure that I understand exactly what is at issue here - is it really the PR/donation issue? Or is it just the theory isn't sound. (Sorry if this sounds inflammatory.)

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