Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:02 am
I always liked him and I've met him. Totally cool guy so this is really a sad end.
John
John
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:24 am
Col. Rohr wrote:Wow I can't beleive what some of you are saying yea so Duke Screw up but what makes him any different than the idiots who ran Enron or any of the other So-Called White Coll Crimes. Personally I still admire Duke for what he did.
RER
Because the Enron folks weren't servants of the people. Enron guys didn't have the trust of the public. Cunningham stole from you and me, that simple. Enron didn't. Thats whats different.
If he gets any time at all, it'll be at "CLub Fed" at Hurlburt anyway. He'll still get his retired O-6 pay every month.
Loser
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:44 am
Ace or no Ace, I'm tired of elected officials stealing. They get rich suckling off of America's teet while the rest of us bust our butts to make ends meet. Just like any other criminal, he belongs in jail plain and simple.
Not only do some elected officials get to vote thierselves raises, they need to steal on top of that. I wish I could vote myself a raise.
Some of the comments on this forum seem to say "it happens all the time, what are you going to do about it"?
Since I'm not an "ACE", how much am I aloud to steal before I go to jail?????
Regards,
Mike
Not only do some elected officials get to vote thierselves raises, they need to steal on top of that. I wish I could vote myself a raise.
Some of the comments on this forum seem to say "it happens all the time, what are you going to do about it"?
Since I'm not an "ACE", how much am I aloud to steal before I go to jail?????
Regards,
Mike
Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:07 am
Hi All,
There isn't a person on the planet--you, me, pope, dalai lama, etc.--that hasn't said or done something they've regretted. The man has confessed his crime, expressed remorse, and promised restitution. Just forgive the guy and move on with life--just like you appreciate others doing the same when you screw up.
We don't need to dream up ways to punish the guy--the courts have that figured out. Even if you feel that the punishment he receives is too lax, remember that he will be taking the burden of his family's and friends' disappointment and mistrust to his grave. That is more than enough punishment for any person.
I don't wish to moralize--I just think this board is a whole lot more productive discussing things warbird than flinging manure on those who already have enough mess on their hands.
Sermon over. Let's talk warbirds.
There isn't a person on the planet--you, me, pope, dalai lama, etc.--that hasn't said or done something they've regretted. The man has confessed his crime, expressed remorse, and promised restitution. Just forgive the guy and move on with life--just like you appreciate others doing the same when you screw up.
We don't need to dream up ways to punish the guy--the courts have that figured out. Even if you feel that the punishment he receives is too lax, remember that he will be taking the burden of his family's and friends' disappointment and mistrust to his grave. That is more than enough punishment for any person.
I don't wish to moralize--I just think this board is a whole lot more productive discussing things warbird than flinging manure on those who already have enough mess on their hands.
Sermon over. Let's talk warbirds.
Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:20 am
Has everyone forgoten what McCain did? That was about 15 years ago. Can't remember what they were called something 5.
Silverado??????
Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:39 am
Savings and something, Does the name of Charles W. Keating strike a familiar tune in your heart?
Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:49 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:Wow I can't beleive what some of you are saying yea so Duke Screw up but what makes him any different than the idiots who ran Enron or any of the other So-Called White Coll Crimes. Personally I still admire Duke for what he did.
He is a question for all of you how many more Politition are out there are as bad or even worse then Duke het he is one right off the top of my head Slick Willy JFK RFK Teddy. So as far as i'm concern no one got killed and heck some folks even got jobs out of it all. If you don't like my take tought deal with it but I will stand behind Duke way before I would stand behind Hillery and her kind.
So bring if you want because I can throw it just as hard as you dish it.
RER
I agree! I still would like to get him to autograph a armour F-4 before he goes to priso! Still respect him just a little disapointed
Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:49 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:Wow I can't beleive what some of you are saying yea so Duke Screw up but what makes him any different than the idiots who ran Enron or any of the other So-Called White Coll Crimes. Personally I still admire Duke for what he did.
He is a question for all of you how many more Politition are out there are as bad or even worse then Duke het he is one right off the top of my head Slick Willy JFK RFK Teddy. So as far as i'm concern no one got killed and heck some folks even got jobs out of it all. If you don't like my take tought deal with it but I will stand behind Duke way before I would stand behind Hillery and her kind.
So bring if you want because I can throw it just as hard as you dish it.
RER
I agree! I still would like to get him to autograph a armour F-4 before he goes to priso! Still respect him just a little disapointed
Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:49 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:Wow I can't beleive what some of you are saying yea so Duke Screw up but what makes him any different than the idiots who ran Enron or any of the other So-Called White Coll Crimes. Personally I still admire Duke for what he did.
He is a question for all of you how many more Politition are out there are as bad or even worse then Duke het he is one right off the top of my head Slick Willy JFK RFK Teddy. So as far as i'm concern no one got killed and heck some folks even got jobs out of it all. If you don't like my take tought deal with it but I will stand behind Duke way before I would stand behind Hillery and her kind.
So bring if you want because I can throw it just as hard as you dish it.
RER
I agree! I still would like to get him to autograph a armour F-4 before he goes to priso! Still respect him just a little disapointed
Duke Cunningham
Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:41 pm
I'm a newcomer to the site, but wanted to post my two cents on this topic.
It's ironic that this just happened as I recently saw Cunningham interviewed on a show he did detailing his 3-kill flight.
While I don't think his crime requires that he do time in the Hanoi Hilton, his actions significantly impact how he will be remembered by history.
Taking bribes makes him no less of a pilot, but his actions are so repugnant that I find myself totally disgusted.
The arguments being posted that his crime was not all tht bad because did not physically harm anyone or that other politicians are just as bad are foolish. He harmed US tax payers. I pay enough already, I don't want to pay for Cunningham's home through higher defense costs. What he did hurts the average American in the same way the as the Mafia, by building in additional costs that the rest of us have to carry.
For Duke's sake I hope he learns a lesson in all this.
It's ironic that this just happened as I recently saw Cunningham interviewed on a show he did detailing his 3-kill flight.
While I don't think his crime requires that he do time in the Hanoi Hilton, his actions significantly impact how he will be remembered by history.
Taking bribes makes him no less of a pilot, but his actions are so repugnant that I find myself totally disgusted.
The arguments being posted that his crime was not all tht bad because did not physically harm anyone or that other politicians are just as bad are foolish. He harmed US tax payers. I pay enough already, I don't want to pay for Cunningham's home through higher defense costs. What he did hurts the average American in the same way the as the Mafia, by building in additional costs that the rest of us have to carry.
For Duke's sake I hope he learns a lesson in all this.
Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:59 pm
it really is a shame, like somebody said in the discussion.... this stain will be on the duke's professional resume in the service to his government for the rest of his years, both military & political. it's to bad because alot of people will misjudge his wartime character right along with his political character. it's unfair, but a reality. what is equally sad is the small nam fighter pilot fraternity has shrunk most painfully with this situation. while all of us taxpayer / aviation enthusiasts are saddened & disappointed, i too feel that many vietnam vets are doubley bummed.
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:34 pm
Time has a way of healing wounds. While I find Mr. Cunningham's actions utterly despicable, I believe that when the history books are written after our lifetimes, his achievements as a Navy pilot will outweigh his later actions as a congressman and those later actions will become an afterthought...kind of like this:
(Long article detailing his achievements in Vietnam)...
"After serving in the military, Randy "Duke" Cunningham was elected to Congress. In 2005 he resigned in a bribery scandal".
..and that's all the history books will have to say about this.
(Long article detailing his achievements in Vietnam)...
"After serving in the military, Randy "Duke" Cunningham was elected to Congress. In 2005 he resigned in a bribery scandal".
..and that's all the history books will have to say about this.
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:43 pm
Just goes to show that just because you have prowess in an aircraft, it can't make up for flaws of character.
Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:34 pm
well put randy!! happy holidays, tom
?????
Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:21 pm
http://dukecunningham.org/vietnam.html
Breaking and Entering the Commanding Officer’s Office
** For details, read Fall from Glory: The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy, by Gregory L. Vistica, a former San Diego Union-Tribune reporter.
Gregory Vistica, a Newsweek reporter (and former San Diego Union-Tribune reporter) wrote a book about the Navy in Vietnam and up to the “Tailhook Scandal” called Fall From Glory; The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy. This book was selected by the U.S. Naval Institute’s Proceedings as one of the notable books of the year. Mr. Vistica writes about the time when I broke into Jack Ready’s office (my Commanding Officer—CO). This was because I wanted to find out why I was rated at the bottom of my squadron by the Commanding Officer (CO) at “Top Gun” naval flight school. It’s all true, of course, but fortunately I wasn’t court martialed for my breaking & entering the CO’s office when Jack Ready found out. That’s because I just became an “ace” and it would be a P.R. disaster to court martial an ace. I became an ace toward the end of the war, long after it had any chance in changing the war’s outcome, but an ace is still an ace—I can do anything I want! I was also famous for being a womanizer in the Navy and was picked up several times by the Shore Patrol for drunkenness. You see, once you’re an ace, character doesn’t matter anymore.
In the notorious Tailhook gang, Mr. Cunningham was a Member of the Board. Thus, he had supervisory responsibility for a scandalous Tailhook meeting, at which women were made to run the gauntlet, according to the Department of Defense Inspector General’s report. Mr. Cunningham condoned improper behavior of which he was aware and failed to report it to legal authorities. **
You know, I’m a self-proclaimed hero in the Vietnam War. We sure showed those Vietnamese who’s boss, didn’t we? Why am I a hero? Never mind that I was nominated and rejected for the Congressional Medal of Honor. Never mind that my flying was at the end of the war, when it was way too late to have any effect on the war’s outcome. However, I was either shot down once by a SAM (or ran out of fuel). You know, in the old days you had to do something like rescue your buddies under heavy fire or play a major role in winning a battle to be a hero. But, thanks to what I call “hero inflation” (or what Shakespeare’s Henry V called “remember with advantages” (act 4, scene III)), it’s not that tough anymore! That reminds me, do you know the difference between a “fairy tale” and a “Navy sea story?” One begins with “Once upon a time” and the other begins with “This is no &%$#,” and the fairy tale is based on fact.
******As a Commander at the Miramar Naval Air Station, Mr. Cunningham permitted sinful debauchery and abuse of women at the Officer’s Club rarely equaled since the pagan orgies of ancient Rome.* Charles Fleming’s new book also described extreme cocaine abuse and pilots with naked women in an Officers Club pool during filming in which Mr. Cunningham participated.*******
Breaking and Entering the Commanding Officer’s Office
** For details, read Fall from Glory: The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy, by Gregory L. Vistica, a former San Diego Union-Tribune reporter.
Gregory Vistica, a Newsweek reporter (and former San Diego Union-Tribune reporter) wrote a book about the Navy in Vietnam and up to the “Tailhook Scandal” called Fall From Glory; The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy. This book was selected by the U.S. Naval Institute’s Proceedings as one of the notable books of the year. Mr. Vistica writes about the time when I broke into Jack Ready’s office (my Commanding Officer—CO). This was because I wanted to find out why I was rated at the bottom of my squadron by the Commanding Officer (CO) at “Top Gun” naval flight school. It’s all true, of course, but fortunately I wasn’t court martialed for my breaking & entering the CO’s office when Jack Ready found out. That’s because I just became an “ace” and it would be a P.R. disaster to court martial an ace. I became an ace toward the end of the war, long after it had any chance in changing the war’s outcome, but an ace is still an ace—I can do anything I want! I was also famous for being a womanizer in the Navy and was picked up several times by the Shore Patrol for drunkenness. You see, once you’re an ace, character doesn’t matter anymore.
In the notorious Tailhook gang, Mr. Cunningham was a Member of the Board. Thus, he had supervisory responsibility for a scandalous Tailhook meeting, at which women were made to run the gauntlet, according to the Department of Defense Inspector General’s report. Mr. Cunningham condoned improper behavior of which he was aware and failed to report it to legal authorities. **
You know, I’m a self-proclaimed hero in the Vietnam War. We sure showed those Vietnamese who’s boss, didn’t we? Why am I a hero? Never mind that I was nominated and rejected for the Congressional Medal of Honor. Never mind that my flying was at the end of the war, when it was way too late to have any effect on the war’s outcome. However, I was either shot down once by a SAM (or ran out of fuel). You know, in the old days you had to do something like rescue your buddies under heavy fire or play a major role in winning a battle to be a hero. But, thanks to what I call “hero inflation” (or what Shakespeare’s Henry V called “remember with advantages” (act 4, scene III)), it’s not that tough anymore! That reminds me, do you know the difference between a “fairy tale” and a “Navy sea story?” One begins with “Once upon a time” and the other begins with “This is no &%$#,” and the fairy tale is based on fact.
******As a Commander at the Miramar Naval Air Station, Mr. Cunningham permitted sinful debauchery and abuse of women at the Officer’s Club rarely equaled since the pagan orgies of ancient Rome.* Charles Fleming’s new book also described extreme cocaine abuse and pilots with naked women in an Officers Club pool during filming in which Mr. Cunningham participated.*******