Barksdale AFB B-24 (pics)

[Ken]

Money is the key issue in flying any of these aircraft, and I don't really see where it's going to come from at this point in time.

Bottom line, you're right. I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin above as well. The AF isn't about to give up the Barksdale B-24. The best we could hope for is for her to be dismantled and shipped to Dayton for similar treatment as the Memphis Belle. I'm sure that's not a popular description, but I think it's a realistic one.

As far as flyers go, I also agree with Kevin. We care, but the Average Joe can't tell a B-17 from a B-24 from a DC-8. This airplane needs to come inside and get the rock star treatment. I don't see a need to fly it.

And before I'm labeled a static display junkie, I'm glad the MAAM P-61 will be a flyer. They raised the cash and put the sweat into an airplane they own - and they seem to be doing the airframe historical justice. Can't wait to see it fly.

Ken

[rcaf_100]

Plus being, what only one of two remaining Ford built left in the world.

Although it's still not a lot, I can count at least four Ford-build Libs left on display.

44-48781 at Barksdale
44-50206 at the RAF Museum in Hendon (formerly at Cosford)
44-50454 at the Canada Air & Space Museum in Rockcliffe (Ottawa)
44-51228 at the IWM/American Air Museum in Duxford

I always thought it was a good idea for YAM to restore the crashed RCAF Liberator GR.V (B-24D) sitting up in Labrador and make a trade with Rockcliffe.
It's a win-win situation with YAM getting a Ford-built Lib and Rockcliffe getting an actual Canadian Lib with a U-boat kill.
I guess that makes too much sense so it'll never happen...

[Warbird Kid]

I always thought it was a good idea for YAM to restore the crashed RCAF Liberator GR.V (B-24D) sitting up in Labrador and make a trade with Rockcliffe.
It's a win-win situation with YAM getting a Ford-built Lib and Rockcliffe getting an actual Canadian Lib with a U-boat kill.
I guess that makes too much sense so it'll never happen...

Now I like that idea.

[Sgt13Echo]

Here are some pictures I took today at the Barksdale Air Force Museum.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgt13echo/8212216574/in/set-72157632080256611/

I also did a B-24 video walkaround
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcyNtsfT ... e=youtu.be

[hang the expense]

Plus being, what only one of two remaining Ford built left in the world.

Although it's still not a lot, I can count at least four Ford-build Libs left on display.

44-48781 at Barksdale
44-50206 at the RAF Museum in Hendon (formerly at Cosford)
44-50454 at the Canada Air & Space Museum in Rockcliffe (Ottawa)
44-51228 at the IWM/American Air Museum in Duxford

I always thought it was a good idea for YAM to restore the crashed RCAF Liberator GR.V (B-24D) sitting up in Labrador and make a trade with Rockcliffe.
It's a win-win situation with YAM getting a Ford-built Lib and Rockcliffe getting an actual Canadian Lib with a U-boat kill.
I guess that makes too much sense so it'll never happen...
Of course in wont happen because as you rightly stated it makes way too much sense.A shame really.

[JimH]

if you want it bad enough start raising funds to build one of these replicas, then start raising funds to restore it to static...which, given it's condition, would take $500,000 to 1mil to do properly. The Castle B-24 is in even worse shape than the Barksdale airframe...it's criminal that the NMUSAF lets these aircraft sit outside, yet the XC-99 did nothing for history and they spend cubic dollars to bring it to Dayton????????? baffling. So, if you want to do something constructive, lobby your representatives, the USAF, and the powers that be at the NMUSAF. The WWII generation deserves a more fitting tribute to the aircraft that they fought and died in, than seeing these rare airframes sit outside. Coating them with paint is only slowing thier demise. Use the CT Corsair project as an inspiration. Sadly, the world is quickly forgetting the past and these dwindling representatives of type are not long for this world.

Jim

[seabee1526]

Plus being, what only one of two remaining Ford built left in the world.

Although it's still not a lot, I can count at least four Ford-build Libs left on display.

44-48781 at Barksdale
44-50206 at the RAF Museum in Hendon (formerly at Cosford)
44-50454 at the Canada Air & Space Museum in Rockcliffe (Ottawa)
44-51228 at the IWM/American Air Museum in Duxford

I always thought it was a good idea for YAM to restore the crashed RCAF Liberator GR.V (B-24D) sitting up in Labrador and make a trade with Rockcliffe.
It's a win-win situation with YAM getting a Ford-built Lib and Rockcliffe getting an actual Canadian Lib with a U-boat kill.
I guess that makes too much sense so it'll never happen...
Of course in wont happen because as you rightly stated it makes way too much sense.A shame really.

Would be nice if some sort of trade could be worked out....the Canadians ever use the Argosy?

[mustangdriver]

The XC-99 is a one of a kind airplane that was on it's way to be scrapped. So the NMUSAF stepped up and saved it. So now that was the wrong thing to do?

The major problem with these aircraft is that they need to come inside, however the number of museums and collections that can take on something like a B-17 or B-24 even to just preserve as static are getting pretty rare. The NMUSAF cares very deeply about the aircraft, but also has to sometimes make some pretty tough decisions. You are about to see some major movement in the not too far future.



As for out door statics, I agree that you are in a constant battle against the elements among so many other challenges. However many good things can be done with these aircraft. We repainted and repaired the C-47 at Grissom to honor Jim Haus. Something that was special to Jim in his final days and is still special to all of us as well as his family who were involved with his story.

During the clean up of that plane we got to have high school kids come out and volunteer on the plane. Something that many private collectors and organizations would never allow. They all had played video games with the C-47 in it, and were amazed at the chance to gets hands on with the real thing. They even had the chance to meet several WWII vets in the process.

Now we are working on our next aircraft, an F-86 Sabre. And with that local kids are learning about a hometown hero. I agree that the planes need to come in, however cleaning them up and helping paint them up is a very rewarding and educational project. It is indeed worth the time and effort.

[Wildchild]

During the clean up of that plane we got to have high school kids come out and volunteer on the plane. Something that many private collectors and organizations would never allow.

Oh god if a muesum in Florida did this would be there in a heartbeat

[Cherrybomber13]

if you want it bad enough start raising funds to build one of these replicas, then start raising funds to restore it to static...which, given it's condition, would take $500,000 to 1mil to do properly. The Castle B-24 is in even worse shape than the Barksdale airframe...it's criminal that the NMUSAF lets these aircraft sit outside...

Use the CT Corsair project as an inspiration.
Jim

Jim, Ill assume you are referring to us, and I am touched. We are really trying to Honor the Men and Women involved with the Corsair. The NMUSAF should step back and remember who they serve and how best to tell the Honor the memory, Preserve the artifacts and Educate the great unwashed masses. It will not be long before the greatest generation will be all but a page in the history books.

Thanks for the vote of confidence,


Drew and the Gang

[mustangdriver]

So how exactly is the NMUSAF NOT doing this. A lot of this also lies with the organization that has the aircraft on loan. They are supposed to be taking care of that aircraft. If the plane is not being taken care of, the museum can apply preasure and in some cases move the plane. This however can require dealing with politicians that organizations bring in to fight the NMUSAF, red tape, logistics, and lets not forget that at the end of the move folks are STILL going to come on here and bash them for moving the plane. If people understood the real workings that go on there, folks might see another side of the story.

[Cherrybomber13]

If anyone knows about dealing with organizations that were supposed to maintain their outdoor aircraft, I think I do. When you do not have the Manpower, Financial Ability or Care to maintain a historical artifact, not even saying restoring, just stopping or slowing the decay, then it's time to take your prideful head out of your tailpipe and let someone who is willing and able to do the job step in.

You said 'The NMUSAF cares very deeply about the aircraft, but also has to sometimes make some pretty tough decisions." It's a pretty tough decision to do nothing...

But hey this is America and we are all entitled to our own views and opinions...

[mustangdriver]

What exactly should they be doing. They have aircraft on loan to people. If those people do not live up to their loan agreement all they can do is one of two things. Show them what it is they want to see done with the plane to improve it. Or move the aircraft to another home. If there is no other home waiting in the wings that can better care for it, then what. If anyone knows how that works, trust me I've had a front row seat.

Example:

There is a B-24 at an air museum out doors. It's in need of restoration. On the list of museums that have requested a B-24 is 3 museums. 2 of the museums are in climates that are not conducive to keeping an airplane outside, and have no preservation or restoration plan and have no indoor room for it. The one that does have a hangar space does not have the money to move the aircraft or restore it. On top of that, the museum that currently has the B-24 is getting local and Washington politicians involved to keep the plane, none of which know anything about aircraft but are looking to make a good publicity stunt. All the while the museum has no plan for restoration, no funds or plans for a building, and no volunteers.

Now that is a rare B-24 I used in my example. There are fewer and fewer people inline for things like an F-101 or F-84. Even if they would decide to sell the airframes off. How many are really going to get saved and flown. 1 maybe 2?

[old iron]

The one that does have a hangar space does not have the money to move the aircraft or restore it.

If the third museum mentioned here is NASM - and it is my understanding that they have put in a request for it - they should obviously get it. They will find the resources to transport it, and it can be reassembled as is next to the "Enola Gay." A full restoration may be a long time in coming, but in the meantime it will be seen by a great many people, near aircraft of types that flew with and against B-24s in the war. It will be indoors with longterm preservation assured. There is no more important and more educationally visible place anywhere that needs a B-24 to complement an existing collection.

Why do advocates of NMUSAF argue against this? The Smithsonian has a longer history of historic aircraft preservation than any museum on this continent (the Smithsonian preserved its aircraft when the then USAAF twice scrapped its entire historic aircraft collections, in the late 1920s and early 1940s). To argue that NASM has this or that still in storage is fallaceous - the USAF stores portions of its fall-too-large collection outdoors in coastal areas for decades, the Barksdale B-24 being one example amoung hundreds. Rare aircraft in storage are aircraft being preserved, aircraft outdoors are aircraft being destroyed.

It strikes me that much of this argument against the B-24 going to Udvar Hazy is local/regional/political self interests against national interests and concern for the welfare of the airplane. Get this B-24 where it needs to go: to the national museum that wants it and will place it indoors to be shown in good company to 100,000s of people each year.

[mustangdriver]

Just to be clear, I used that as an example. Just hypothetical. However it is an accurate depiction of some situations. I agree the NASM would be a great home.