Grumman HU-16 Albatross American Clipper

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:54 pm

WallyB wrote:

andyman64 wrote:

i don,t think Grumman ever made an ugly aeroplane!!!

XF-5F

and the post war 'everymans' TADPOLE amphib that became the COLONIALSKIMMERRENEGADE which always reminded me of a ramp accident between a MOONEY 20 and a PBY tip float :lol:

SaxMan · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:21 am

WallyB wrote:

andyman64 wrote:

i don,t think Grumman ever made an ugly aeroplane!!!

XF-5F

You beat me to it. However, the XF5F project did give Grumman valuable data that aided in the development of the F7F, one of the sleekest twin engine birds ever made (IMHO), so even the "ugly duckling" XF5F helped in creating the "beautiful swan" that was the F7F.

JohnB · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:07 pm

The Inspector wrote:

and the post war 'everymans' TADPOLE amphib that became the COLONIALSKIMMERRENEGADE which always reminded me of a ramp accident between a MOONEY 20 and a PBY tip float :lol:

Come on, that's a great looking plane. Still looks modern after 60 (+-) years.
Saw one up at at resort at Lake Pend Oreille...a guy's summer toy.

PbyCat-Guy · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:32 am

I love the albatross. when I was in college, I took a "History and Theory of Modern Architecture" as an elective towards my aviation degree. The instructor asked us to use influences to come up with a house design. I came up with a house with a hangar large enough to park an Albatross on the inside, shared of course with a P-47. The second floor had all the living space, but with my "man cave and a spare bed room in the hangar. A man can always dream.

bilwor · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:34 am

Round engines w/props = beautiful

posted by an ole man
bill word

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Rajay · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:05 pm

CoastieJohn wrote:

Uh oh!!!

We need to cross-check some numbers. My CG airplane historian say's this was not CG-1026. Here's the response.

Quote:

Beautiful machine....................BUT..!
All of the numbers that are contained in the header atop the first pic are a mixed-match an most
are incorrect.

Grumman HU-16 "Albatross" (G-90)(USN Bu. no. 149836)(USCG 1026)(N7026C)(American Clipper)
Tucson International Airport (TUS) July 25, 2012

1. MSN G-90 indicates a USAF serial of 51-017 was an A-model (as noted by the straight
trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal tab is set back behind the leading edge of the vertical
fin.

2. It was not CG 1026 as that airframe was modified to a long-wing UF-2G/HU-16E.

3. BUNO went from the USAF to the USN in 1960 and was retired in late 1962 when it was
placed in open storage at NAF Litchfiled Park, AZ, where it remained in storage between
1963 and 1965 when it was sold as scrap.

bilwor wrote:

Thanks CoastieJohn for setting some things straight. Further I did not do my research very well
It is registered N7026C, c/n G-90, USN s/n 149836. It did serve with USAF as s/n 51-0017. Warbirds Directory has it listed as a SA-16A, then a UF-1 and finally as a HU-16C. No mention of USCG service.

Sorry for the misinformation at first.
bill word

Any final word as to whether or not N7026C (msn G-90) ever served with the US Coast Guard? (Presumably it would have been as USCG UF-1G s/n 1017 since it apparently started off as USAF SA-16A s/n 51-017.)

krlang · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:17 pm

Wow,
That brings back a few memories of N7026Y...

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

[quote="RajayAny final word as to whether or not N7026C (msn G-90) ever served with the US Coast Guard? (Presumably it would have been as USCG UF-1G s/n 1017 since it apparently started off as USAF SA-16A s/n 51-017.)[/quote]

Just got a reply back. Doesn't look like it.

Quote:

51-017 "WAS NOT" a USCG machine. Its older brother, 51-016 (USCG 1016) was a CG machine

Rajay · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:52 pm

That actually jibes with the notes included in Steve Ginter's Naval Fighters (once again, WTF?) Number 11 - Grumman HU-16 Albatross book on page 25.

Rajay · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:43 pm

CoastieJohn,

Could you and your Coast Guard aviation reference source help me out with something else regarding USCG "Goats"?

Ray Wolfe's Albatross site (which is finally back up and online again after being down for a while) and Joe Baugher's military serial numbers site both list the following sequence of Albatrosses near the end of Grumman's initial production:

Grumman c/n / Contracted service & serial no. / Subsequent service & serial no.
G-426 = USN Bu. 141279
G-427 = USCG 1313 = USN Bu. 141284
G-428 = USN Bu. 141280
G-429 = USCG 1314 = USN Bu. 141285
G-430 = USN Bu. 141281
G-431 = USCG 1315 = USN Bu. 141286
G-432 = USN Bu. 141282
G-433 = USCG 1316 = USN Bu. 141287
G-434 = USN Bu. 141283
G-435 = USCG 1317 = USN Bu. 141288

That sequence makes sense to me only if the Coast Guard ordered those aircraft directly from the factory but later cancelled its order and those planes were added onto the previous US Navy contract instead - prior to their actual first customer delivery.

What can you tell me about USCG Albatrosses serials 1313 - 1317?

On top of that, the last Albatross that I have in my records as being ordered directly by the USCG was c/n G-407 which became USCG UF-1G s/n 1311. In between, I have no record of an Albatross being USCG s/n 1312.

Thanks for the help!

TAdan · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:47 pm

krlang wrote:

Wow,
That brings back a few memories of N7026Y...

Charles River, Boston? Great shot.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Rajay wrote:

CoastieJohn,

Could you and your Coast Guard aviation reference source help me out with something else regarding USCG "Goats"?

Ray Wolfe's Albatross site (which is finally back up and online again after being down for a while) and Joe Baugher's military serial numbers site both list the following sequence of Albatrosses near the end of Grumman's initial production:

Grumman c/n / Contracted service & serial no. / Subsequent service & serial no.
G-426 = USN Bu. 141279
G-427 = USCG 1313 = USN Bu. 141284
G-428 = USN Bu. 141280
G-429 = USCG 1314 = USN Bu. 141285
G-430 = USN Bu. 141281
G-431 = USCG 1315 = USN Bu. 141286
G-432 = USN Bu. 141282
G-433 = USCG 1316 = USN Bu. 141287
G-434 = USN Bu. 141283
G-435 = USCG 1317 = USN Bu. 141288

That sequence makes sense to me only if the Coast Guard ordered those aircraft directly from the factory but later cancelled its order and those planes were added onto the previous US Navy contract instead - prior to their actual first customer delivery.

What can you tell me about USCG Albtrosses serials 1313 - 1317?

On top of that, the last Albatross that I have in my records as being ordered directly by the USCG was c/n G-407 which became USCG UF-1G s/n 1311. In between, I have no record of an Albatross being USCG s/n 1312.

Thanks for the help!

I'm on it. I'll post up any response he has.

The latest......have to wait till he gets his Goat papers scanned.

I have copies of all of the GOAT files from the CG but they are in "print" and have not found the time to scan in as yet. The entire mess encompases about 330 pages. Not to make excuses, but I'll have to schedule a long scanning session to get them in a searchable PDF file format. I finally broke down and purchased a highspeed scanner so it should not take too much time once I get started. I can tell you that CG1312 "was not" an HU-16 - - - it was a Martin P5M-2G, the first -2 machine acquired by the CG on February 7, 1956. This machine remained with the CG until December 17, 1960, when it was turned over to the USN. Absent an ASW suite, the Navy used it as a trainer, either at Texas or at NAS North Island in VP-31. NOTE: I have not completed the P5M-1G/-2G data to date.

Give me a few days to review my stuff and get my S__t together and I think I'll be able to provide a correct answer.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Rajay wrote:

CoastieJohn,

Could you and your Coast Guard aviation reference source help me out with something else regarding USCG "Goats"?

Ray Wolfe's Albatross site (which is finally back up and online again after being down for a while) and Joe Baugher's military serial numbers site both list the following sequence of Albatrosses near the end of Grumman's initial production:

Grumman c/n / Contracted service & serial no. / Subsequent service & serial no.
G-426 = USN Bu. 141279
G-427 = USCG 1313 = USN Bu. 141284
G-428 = USN Bu. 141280
G-429 = USCG 1314 = USN Bu. 141285
G-430 = USN Bu. 141281
G-431 = USCG 1315 = USN Bu. 141286
G-432 = USN Bu. 141282
G-433 = USCG 1316 = USN Bu. 141287
G-434 = USN Bu. 141283
G-435 = USCG 1317 = USN Bu. 141288

That sequence makes sense to me only if the Coast Guard ordered those aircraft directly from the factory but later cancelled its order and those planes were added onto the previous US Navy contract instead - prior to their actual first customer delivery.

What can you tell me about USCG Albatrosses serials 1313 - 1317?

Here ya go. It's a little confusing but when you peel the onion back it looks like the CG and Navy did some horse-trading between HU-16's and P5M's.

As I mentioned below, it'll be the correct answer but in complete REVERSE of the previously and current data. Basically, the were ordered by the USCG and then transfered to the Navy in a swap to get the P5M series machines, then on the Martin production line, for USCG use.

Rajay · **Posted:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:22 pm

So, you're saying that I was basically correct in my analysis when I said:

"That sequence makes sense to me only if the Coast Guard ordered those aircraft directly from the factory but later cancelled its order and those planes were added onto the previous US Navy contract instead - prior to their actual first customer delivery."

Thanks a bunch! I hate it when data like the Grumman Albatross records have such anomalies for no good reason. Apparently, there was a good reason in this instance.

:drink3:

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Rajay wrote:

So, you're saying that I was basically correct in my analysis when I said:

"That sequence makes sense to me only if the Coast Guard ordered those aircraft directly from the factory but later cancelled its order and those planes were added onto the previous US Navy contract instead - prior to their actual first customer delivery."

Thanks a bunch! I hate it when data like the Grumman Albatross records have such anomalies for no good reason. Apparently, there was a good reason in this instance.

:drink3:

Yes, that could be the case. I read it as they were on paper CG ordered aircraft and the P5M's were Navy ordered aircraft on paper. They swapped "titles" so to speak for whatever reason. In the end......the CG physically got some P5M's and the Navy physically got some HU-16's. The exact timing of events and reasons he didn't say. I'd guess the CG wanted a bigger, long range amphib at certain air stations.

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Grumman HU-16 Albatross American Clipper

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