Boeing 314 "Honolulu Clipper" Recovery Project

[Cubs]

I'll stick with two different planes (or paint jobs at different dates?)

More likely two different cameras used to photograph the same plane. IIRC there were at least two different black and white photographic processes, or film types, or whatever. This is why some old photos show reds and yellows as being extremely light (almost white) and some show those colours as very dark (nearly black).

The 1st pick clearly shows the large black walkway stripe with no numbers... The 4th pic from roughly the same angle does not show the black walkway stripe and does show the numbers where the stripe would go thru.

I don't think that stripe on top of the wing was a black walkway. Someone more versed in Clippers could confirm but I think it was bright orange. If that's the case it's not a stretch for the upper markings on the wing to look black in some pics and much lighter in others.

-Tim

I am not well versed on either matter but, ....
yes, there are two different photographic processes just as you describe. I don't recall their names but, I do have a 1940's era photography book that explains it.

The "walkways" on pre-war 314's were orange. During the war, they got a different paint job. After, the war, I cannot say what colors the planes may have gotten.

In the name of God, don't mention this to TIGHAR...it would keep them going for years.

They would spend millions searching the aera AROUND the plane, looking for the plane.

Photographic evidence indicates the aircraft was on the water, notice the ship in the background.
By expert, modern analysis of the waves it has been determined the location is near a remote island in the Marshall islands.
Didn't one of the passengers have freckle cream?

[Steve T]

Yep, two different sorts of B&W photography...Orthochromatic film renders reds and yellows much darker (and blues much lighter) than they appear to the eye, while panchromatic film renders them in tones much nearer "normal". This series of shots of the Boeing 314 illustrates the differences nicely. The shots with the "black" upper wing section are orthochromatic, the ones showing a lighter panel and black lettering visible are panchromatic.

This is an interesting project. Re the Atlantic 314, didn't one sink in Baltimore harbour in a storm during the war?

S.

[Tom Moungovan]

Just looking at my late dad's logbooks...he flew that aircraft on 9-9-43 for training out of SFO, on 9-17-43 from Honolulu back to SFO. He notes that it had Wright GR2600AB-1 engines.

He also flew it on 1-4-44 between SFO & HNL & at least one more time.

note, San Francisco was SFC back then, not SFO.

That'd really be something if this project moved ahead. I know of no other living friends who flew them as John Russell died last year. He was based out of Seattle in his later years with PanAm.

[CoastieJohn]

Here's a great website with pics of both Clippers that landed and were sunk (Pacific and Atlantic). Some great stories and links here too. It's about 5 pages to click thru and tells what is in store for the planes. The Labrador B-17 story and pics is embedded here too.


http://athenaintel.com/html/boeing314_4.html


Another link to a 1968 magazine article on these planes.

http://rbogash.com/B314%20B-Mag.pdf.PDF

[Chris Brame]

Having read the pdf article, was the Berwick ever salvaged from where it sank off Baltimore Harbor? Seems like it would be easier to get at if it was still there.

[ChrisK48]

The caption for the first picture says "The San Pablo nearly colliding with the Honolulu Clipper for the second time. The first collision was on the starboard side, smashed in the nose, and knocked off the Nbr 4 engine, and right wingtip."

[DryMartini]

hey!!!dry martini!!!! that's 2 ultra rare / holy grail data plates from this mystery lurker!! what gives?? how did he get those??

He says:

"the 314 data plate is the "HONOLULU CLIPPER" and I own it.
The XB-15 is original, but I don't have it."

I'll see if he can give me more info.

[Cubs]

Having read the pdf article, was the Berwick ever salvaged from where it sank off Baltimore Harbor? Seems like it would be easier to get at if it was still there.

You know that would be too easy. Here is a link that purports the answer to your question:

http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?Di ... le_id=3253

[Noha307]

AND, it was a commercial airliner owned by a now DEFUNCT airline, NOT A BRANCH OF ANY SERVICE (other than when impressed into war service during WW2).

Ironically, I doubled checked that it was being operated by the navy at the time before I made the post above for that specific reason. That does raise the question: Would the navy actually legally be able to attempt to repossess the airframe if it was raised? (I don't doubt that even if they didn't, they would attempt to find a way.) I mean, they didn't own it per se, but I could see the possibility that they could have title to it. (Not that they do or don't deserve it.)

I should probably shut up before I dig myself any deeper.

hey!!!dry martini!!!! that's 2 ultra rare / holy grail data plates from this mystery lurker!! what gives?? how did he get those??

Yea, I'm starting to get really skeptical as well. Does this guy have the data plate from a certain missing Model 10E Electra too?

[tom d. friedman]

that was a good 1 between you, me, & dry martini the mystery lurker is being called on the carpet!!

[DryMartini]

I have no reason to doubt he has a B-314 plate.

I picked up a B-17C exhaust shroud. There were only
about 152 made. Funny how things pop up here and there.

[Cornerlot]

I contacted Bob Bogash, who had the project with UAS to locate and recover the clippers for the Museum of Flight. His response on this French effort;

"Not much activity at my end ..., - I have multi big projects underway that eat my time.

I've read those French stories as well, but have never seen anything substantive. Don't know why they would be interested, as the 314 had little connection with France, except flying to Marseilles for a while early on. Nor do I understand why someone would spend tens of millions to recover and restore something like that "for private enjoyment and viewing" only.

They'd be better off looking for their own flying boat - a good looker too - that disappeared in the Atlantic. Maybe they've had too much trouble finding their own airplanes in the Atlantic - like AF447?

http://propspistonsandoldairliners.blog ... rance.html

Thanks for writing,

Bob"

So, this French team is a ghost. Maybe they're really after Spitfires and this is a cover story.

Steve

[CarlMuss]

I am a ship modeler and an enthusiast for the class of seaplane tenders like the USS San Pablo AVP-30 was; USS Barnegat Class of Seaplane Tenders Small.

I intend to make a 1/350 scale diorama of the rescue / sinking of the Honolulu Clipper. I even have a model of a clipper in 1/350 scale.

My biggest dilemma with my diorama is, "What colors was the Honolulu Clipper painted at the time of this incident?" I've read that the Clippers were painted in Navy paint schemes during WWII but, in 1946 like when this incident occurred would she have had a Navy paint scheme or a civilian paint scheme.

If anyone could confirm this mystery, for me, I'd very much appreciate it.

I have found the discussion, here, about the sun playing on the top of the wings of the Clipper and the coming and going of the numbers and walkway path paint. So curious!

Carl Musselman
http://www.back-aft.com/

[Russ Matthews]

.. in 1946 like when this incident occurred would she have had a Navy paint scheme or a civilian paint scheme.

I'm afraid I don't have the answer either, but want to be sure you're researching November, 1945 as that is when the incident actually occurred (Forced down 3 Nov and sunk 14 Nov).

Please post pics of the diorama when it's done (and even in progress)!

[CarlMuss]

.. in 1946 like when this incident occurred would she have had a Navy paint scheme or a civilian paint scheme.

I'm afraid I don't have the answer either, but want to be sure you're researching November, 1945 as that is when the incident actually occurred (Forced down 3 Nov and sunk 14 Nov).

Please post pics of the diorama when it's done (and even in progress)!

Oh, yes. November 1945. Thank you, Dude.

This is one of my dioramas. USS Duxbury Bay AVP-38 at Kerama Retto, Okinawa May 1945.