B-25D Gunship Mods

[43-2195]

The 4th Air Depot Group, The 12th Air Depot Group and The 15th Air Depot Group at Depot #2 (aka Townsville Air Depot) were the men who modified the mediun altitude bombers and made them straffers. This thread, by enthusiasts who care, hardly mentions them, so what do you think Joe Public knows or cares? There is still an original 4th ADG moded straffer alongside the terminal building at Girua(Dobodura), Papua New Guinea. It is "Bar Fly"of the 22nd Bomb Group, a B-25C(I think) and in 4 inch letters on the rightside of the cockpit, down really low, can be read,"SUMAC". Now that's historic!

[Ken]

I think a number of enthusiasts care but sometimes they don't have all the facts at hand - thanks for sharing them and helping tell the whole story.

An internet search for Bar Fly reveals some interesting photos, although I didn't see any of the entire Bar Fly B-25D. What I did see were shots of the glass nose section of Bar Fly added to a B-25H to create a static display. The newest photo was from 2003 - anyone know how she's doing now?

Ken

[43-2195]

Hasn't moved, still on the grass next to the terminal, as of yesterday.

[tom d. friedman]

nobody has mentioned the b-25 c's with the retractable belly turret. i'm assuming they were deleted from the model before the time they arrived in the pacific.

[Noha307]

Just remembered another unique, obscure nose gun modification for a WWII aircraft: He 177 Grosszerstorer

02/28/2009. The He 177 A-1/U2 Grosszerstörer (large destroyer) was the standard He 177 A-1 fitted with a forward extended under-nose gondola carrying an 1.18 in (30 mm) Mk.101 canon. Twelve aircraft were converted and used for Flak (Flugzeugabwehrkannone, anti-aircraft artilery) suppression, ground straffing and long-range anti-ship raids in support of submarines.

More information: Heinkel He 177 "Greif" ("Griffon") (Scroll down to the "Experimental weapon loads" section)

[43-2195]

Ken, from memory, it's goto to be more than just the glass nose, as the words Bar Fly can be made out below the pilots window.

And whilst we are on this topic, I have a personal photo taken by a Fifth Air Force member that shows a B-25 off the side of the runway(either the nose gear has collapsed or has gone into a ditch) with it's tail high in the air. I believe that it's taken at Charters Towers(based on vegetation) but there is no way to confirm this. What makes it INCREDIBLY interesting is that on close scrutiny, the side gun blister packs can be made out, AFT OF THE WING TRAILING EDGE. Anyone seen this before? I believe it may be one of Pappy's experiments, I have never seen or heard it mentioned before.

[43-2195]

Actually, now that I think about it, perhaps the collapsed nose gear has something to do with the c of G Pappy said he threw away!

[The Inspector]

Ken, from memory, it's goto to be more than just the glass nose, as the words Bar Fly can be made out below the pilots window.

And whilst we are on this topic, I have a personal photo taken by a Fifth Air Force member that shows a B-25 off the side of the runway(either the nose gear has collapsed or has gone into a ditch) with it's tail high in the air. I believe that it's taken at Charters Towers(based on vegetation) but there is no way to confirm this. What makes it INCREDIBLY interesting is that on close scrutiny, the side gun blister packs can be made out, AFT OF THE WING TRAILING EDGE. Anyone seen this before? I believe it may be one of Pappy's experiments, I have never seen or heard it mentioned before.

There was a factory kit for what were called 'Fairfax windows' (originally developed for the desert campaign I believe) where a flat sided early B-25 could have a set of field installed 'blister windows' similar to, but not the same as the later factory blistered windows (the biggest difference was in the lower sill 'dishpan' fairing size/shape) and required BIG holes being hacked into the aft fuselage sides, subtle but distinctive when you know what you're looking for. Just about every B-25 modeller has asked for years for some aftermarket resin guy to do the fairfax mod.........sounds of crickets snoring...........

[Noha307]

And whilst we are on this topic, I have a personal photo taken by a Fifth Air Force member that shows a B-25 off the side of the runway(either the nose gear has collapsed or has gone into a ditch) with it's tail high in the air. I believe that it's taken at Charters Towers(based on vegetation) but there is no way to confirm this. What makes it INCREDIBLY interesting is that on close scrutiny, the side gun blister packs can be made out, AFT OF THE WING TRAILING EDGE. Anyone seen this before? I believe it may be one of Pappy's experiments, I have never seen or heard it mentioned before.

Oooooh! Please post it!

There was a factory kit for what were called 'Fairfax windows' (originally developed for the desert campaign I believe) where a flat sided early B-25 could have a set of field installed 'blister windows' similar to, but not the same as the later factory blistered windows (the biggest difference was in the lower sill 'dishpan' fairing size/shape) and required BIG holes being hacked into the aft fuselage sides, subtle but distinctive when you know what you're looking for. Just about every B-25 modeller has asked for years for some aftermarket resin guy to do the fairfax mod.........sounds of crickets snoring...........

This was posted while I was writing my post, so I looked it up. Found an earlier WIX thread: B-25 Bombardier Floor Window. I'm still confused as to exactly what the "Fairfax windows" are though. As I understand it, it is some sort of modification of the waist gun windows. Part of what's confusing me is what I assume to be the implication that the mystery blister packs in the first quote are misidentified versions of the Fairfax windows. This seems to be an unlikely misidentification to make. Or am I reading something wrong?

[The Inspector]

And whilst we are on this topic, I have a personal photo taken by a Fifth Air Force member that shows a B-25 off the side of the runway(either the nose gear has collapsed or has gone into a ditch) with it's tail high in the air. I believe that it's taken at Charters Towers(based on vegetation) but there is no way to confirm this. What makes it INCREDIBLY interesting is that on close scrutiny, the side gun blister packs can be made out, AFT OF THE WING TRAILING EDGE. Anyone seen this before? I believe it may be one of Pappy's experiments, I have never seen or heard it mentioned before.

Oooooh! Please post it!

There was a factory kit for what were called 'Fairfax windows' (originally developed for the desert campaign I believe) where a flat sided early B-25 could have a set of field installed 'blister windows' similar to, but not the same as the later factory blistered windows (the biggest difference was in the lower sill 'dishpan' fairing size/shape) and required BIG holes being hacked into the aft fuselage sides, subtle but distinctive when you know what you're looking for. Just about every B-25 modeller has asked for years for some aftermarket resin guy to do the fairfax mod.........sounds of crickets snoring...........

This was posted while I was writing my post, so I looked it up. Found an earlier WIX thread: B-25 Bombardier Floor Window. I'm still confused as to exactly what the "Fairfax windows" are though. As I understand it, it is some sort of modification of the waist gun windows. Part of what's confusing me is what I assume to be the implication that the mystery blister packs in the first quote are misidentified versions of the Fairfax windows. This seems to be an unlikely misidentification to make. Or am I reading something wrong?

Sorry, major brain cramp on my part, I misinterpreted the original posting and mentally substituted 'blister packs' with bulged side windows. The Fairfax's replaced the small. flush aft fuselage gun locations to give a wider field of fire and better visability for the gunner in the aft fuselage.

[43-2195]

Nope, definitely two gun blister pack, rightside, just aft of trailing edge of wing. I've shared it with Jack Fellows, Justin Taylan and three US WW2 Aviation authors. I'm not prepared to post it here until it has been published, which I am hoping will happen in the near future.

[Ken]

Ken, from memory, it's goto to be more than just the glass nose, as the words Bar Fly can be made out below the pilots window.

That may be, but here is the rub: "Bar Fly" is reported to have been a B-25D. The airplane in the photos I saw has an opening for a forward dorsal turret and had late model cheek gun packs. These features are only found on the B-25H/J models, so the fuselage doesn't seem to match. I say this only having seen the photos from pacificwrecks.

Ken

[43-2195]

Ken, I'll have to take a look next time I'm over there, and see just exactly where BARFLY and SUMAC are written. Justin suggests that you are correct and that just the glass nose section from BARFLY is bolted on to B-25H 43-4450. Apparently the left main gear leg is off a B-24.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b ... 30593.html

[gary1954]

Ken, I'll have to take a look next time I'm over there, and see just exactly where BARFLY and SUMAC are written. Justin suggests that you are correct and that just the glass nose section from BARFLY is bolted on to B-25H 43-4450. Apparently the left main gear leg is off a B-24.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b ... 30593.html

concur with you and Justin this definitely is NOT a D model is that B-24 landing gear just propping up the port wing??

[tom d. friedman]

nobody has mentioned the b-25 c's with the retractable belly turret. i'm assuming they were deleted from the model before the time they arrived in the pacific.

no answer as of today. any insight to my question out their??