Spitfires Probably Won't be Found

[PeterA]

Still away to go on this. I am open minded.

http://worldofwarplanes.eu/en/blog/main

PeterA

[JohnB]

I haven't been paying too close attention to this topic, here or on the "other" forum.

But based on comments in the UK media, I thought the search was over...and it was "a bust".

[bdk]

Playing the odds on this, I would like to bet that even more Spitfires will be found than predicted.

[PinecastleAAF]

After reading various accounts, some painfull from a journalistic standpoint, I'm still not clear on how many eyewitness accounts there are of spitfires in crates actually being buried. Isn't the chap that intially told him the story passed on now?

Also is there any record at all of spitfires arriving in Rangoon unassembed, late in the war?

I guess if you are digging for something and don't find it you can conclude:

1. I'm digging in the wrong spot.
2. I didn't dig deep enough.
3. Someone else dug it up first.
4. It was never buried.

Here's hoping for numero uno.

[HawkerTempestMKII]

Good questions:

I think there is a lot of speculation involved, and that's why I am suspicous. I think only 3-4 eyewitnesses came forward as far as I know. It was claimed they were Americans who buried them, but what American engineers were there? I don't think anyone knows. Suspicously, the ones who did come forward were low ranking like privates, etc.

Also, we know how rumors can be spread all it takes is for someone to guess spitfires were being buried and vocalize it. So some private guesses that something in a box is spitfires and tells everybody.. Or somebody through a miscommunication connects some boxes on an airfield with spitfires. Watch the video on YouTube and notice he only brings 1 guy forward who's story is hearsay.

Also, yes the spitfires were struck off charge on a certain date, but then who knows if they weren't flown to England first or simply scrapped at another location?

There were also lots of pilots on hand with nothing to do, so how likely would it be to bury them when they could just be flown out?

Next, the fishy thing was when this story first came out these were all MKII's and then the story changed to them being Mk XIV's. So if the story changes like this that tells me that they really don't know what was there being struck off charge and when.

Finally there was the speculation that these were being buried for an invasion by the Japanese, but where did this information come from? It appears this story is heavy on rumor and extremely slim on facts.

[Versatile]

Myself i have no idea if they do exist. I do know that i spoke to a pilot that got lost in the fog etc back about 1953 in a Wildcat and went from Oregon irrc into British Columbia and bellied in somewhere . I spoke to the pilot myself and he said the last he saw of the airplane was when a dozer shoved it into the Frazier River irrc and it floated out of sight. A while later a talk with a buddy from High school that was a Constable in the area and he tracked down the guy that drove a dozer over the wings in 1974 to scrap it out. Keep looking. Trust but verify

[HawkerTempestMKII]

Versatile wrote:

.....Trust but verify

I don't want to harp on this, but trust but verify was a cold war saying and policy and principle used by Reagan in dealing with the Soviets. It was a political solution, where a relationship of mutual trust between the Soviets and Americans was formed. This allowed for weapons inspections and less suspicions leading to potential war. That philosophy has nothing to do with an investigation. For an investigation to be successful credible evidence is required. The police know this too well. That's why we have the legal system where there is evidence required. The jury, the judge and a plantiff must prove the defendant guilty "beyond a shadow of a doubt" using evidence. With this Burma spitfire allegation, there should much better evidence than "word of mouth" from questionable sources if one is going to expect these to be there.

Additionally, the story about the Wildcat is far better and more reliable, because it can be documented that the aircraft really was lost and the pilot can be traced to the aircraft not to mention the report made by the sheriff. In contrast with the Spitfire story where nothing can be traced to reliable first hand witnesses who actually buried them. All of the sources I have noticed are hearsay. Where are the firsthand witnesses or ducumentation?

[gary1954]

Good questions:

I think there is a lot of speculation involved, and that's why I am suspicous. I think only 3-4 eyewitnesses came forward as far as I know. It was claimed they were Americans who buried them, but what American engineers were there? I don't think anyone knows. Suspicously, the ones who did come forward were low ranking like privates, etc.

Also, we know how rumors can be spread all it takes is for someone to guess spitfires were being buried and vocalize it. So some private guesses that something in a box is spitfires and tells everybody..

So.. ..are you saying that because a soldier is a mere Private , that because if his grade, and not being an "Officer" that what he says is "suspicious" just because he is a "Private" ?
Wow, I wonder where all the Command Sergeant Majors came from....Audie Murphy started off as a Private, I'm sure many would want to meet you behind the gym at 3pm

[HawkerTempestMKII]

No, Privates generally have less knowledge of the big picture and responsibility for planning etc than the higher ups have, and most notably his information was hearsay. They are most likely to be sent out on an errand. They are most likely to see the box, but less likely to know what's in the box and why. Unless you have one who came forward who actually took the wings off and loaded the box, or watched the wings come off and watched it loaded into the box (Interestingly enough there are none).

[gary1954]

Good questions:

I think there is a lot of speculation involved, and that's why I am suspicious. I think only 3-4 eyewitnesses came forward as far as I know. It was claimed they were Americans who buried them, but what American engineers were there? I don't think anyone knows. Suspiciously, the ones who did come forward were low ranking like privates, etc. Privates generally have less knowledge of the big picture and responsibility for planning etc than the higher ups have, and most notably his information was hearsay. They are most likely to be sent out on an errand. They are most likely to see the box, but less likely to know what's in the box and why. Unless you have one who came forward who actually took the wings off and loaded the box, or watched the wings come off and watched it loaded into the box (Interestingly enough there are none)

Also, we know how rumors can be spread all it takes is for someone to guess spitfires were being buried and vocalize it. So some private guesses that something in a box is spitfires and tells everybody..

ah , now this makes better sense

[HawkerTempestMKII]

It must be disappointing Gary. At least we know they have some UH-1's you would be interested over in Vietnam.

[gary1954]

Trust me guy , "if" I had the bucks you bet I'd have more than one Huey And if it took me to Vietnam to get them.....oh but wait, I'm sure Customs would toss a wrench into those plans,,,

Hey thanks for the heads up though

[HawkerTempestMKII]

Sounds exciting Gary! I appreciate your enthusiasm and optimism.

[PeterA]

Good questions:

I think there is a lot of speculation involved, and that's why I am suspicous. I think only 3-4 eyewitnesses came forward as far as I know. It was claimed they were Americans who buried them, but what American engineers were there? I don't think anyone knows. Suspicously, the ones who did come forward were low ranking like privates, etc.

Eight eyewitnesses in total. Some no longer with us.

Also, yes the spitfires were struck off charge on a certain date, but then who knows if they weren't flown to England first or simply scrapped at another location?

Many Spitfires in ACSEA had their movement cards simply stamped or written SOC or PSOC..'presumed struck of charge'. The lines of communication back to London were just too long, similarly North Africa. It neither enhances nor diminishes the burial story

Next, the fishy thing was when this story first came out these were all MKII's and then the story changed to them being Mk XIV's. So if the story changes like this that tells me that they really don't know what was there being struck off charge and when.

Since 13 August 1997 the story told to me by David Cundall was twelve Mk XIV's buried at Mingaladon. Those facts have not changed in the intervening 15 odd years. Along the way further snippets have come in suggesting further Spitfires at another location at Mingaladon, some at Myitkyina and some scrapped aircraft possibly Mk VIII's at or near to Meiktila. All are being investigated and all have a license to dig issued by the Myanmar Government in October 2012.

Finally there was the speculation that these were being buried for an invasion by the Japanese, but where did this information come from? It appears this story is heavy on rumor and extremely slim on facts.

Press/Forums nonsense.


Currently work continues to investigate at Mingaladon with bore holes. David Cundall is up-beat.

I would expect there to be activity on site until the start of the Monsoons at the end of May.

PeterA

[Brenden S]

Very good read on this link, looks like someone has actually done their research.
http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/nation ... s.facebook