Sun n Fun warbird report?

[RandolphB]

I'm still happy.....the UH-1 and the Cobra that were there giving rides are hanging out at the Kissimmee Air Museum until Friday when they go home. I haven't really been up close to either type in years and have enjoyed checking things out on them all day .

[Boeing666]

I don't consider aircraft that don't serve in battle technical warbirds. The T-6 is a lot cooler than say an L-17, but I don't consider either "true" warbirds. Both had their importance in the military - if it wasn't for the T-6/SNJ then we wouldn't have had pilots to fly the P-51s, Wildcats etc.

I think that there are others who like you consider warbirds to only be those types of military aircraft that served in actual combat. I ascribe to what I believe to be the broader "WIX definition" of a vintage warbirds.....an aircraft that served in former military service. For instance to me an aircraft like a former C-121C Super Constellation both Connies in while it didn't serve in actual "battle," did serve in U.S. Military service so it is a vintage warbird, while a Constellation like the Airline History Museum's L-1049H Super Connie was built for civilian service, never served in military service, so is not a warbird.

In my definition you have two types of "warbirds," aircraft that served in actual combat or battle and those that did not.

And as mentioned above, the T-6 Texan is technically a combat/battle veteran since it served as the T-6 "Mosquito" FAC/Forward Air Control aircraft during the Korean War.

Hopefully there will be a better warbird presence at the next Sun 'n Fun!

I'll retract some of my statements about the T-6. Its not as sexy as a P-51 or P-38 etc, but it was purpose built for the military and I do believe I have read about the Mosquito squadron before. The T-6 unlike the L-17, most of the other L birds and even the O-2 (which did see combat) was built solely for the military, while the L-17, which is the Ryan Navion A and the O-2, which was the Cessna 337 was built mainly for civilian but the military took some also in their inventory. It is hard to say if the "O-2s" and various L birds we see at airshows are actual O-2s and L-17s etc and not just C337s and Navion As painted like a warbird. I guess I am just kind of bored though of the T-6, they are at every warbird airshow and you almost never see less than at least 4. Sun N Fun must have had 15 + the 11 from Geico and Aeroshell.

I have to watch also when I say "aircraft that saw combat" because all the B-17s left flying never saw combat other than fighting forest fires

I wish I had taken the UH-1 ride when they were at New Smyrna Beach last week - that was a pretty scenic ride for $60. The Cobra ride there was longer and twice as much cost at NSB vs. Sun N Fun, still more than I can afford

Hopefully sequestration is over next year and the weather forecasts are better - then we can judge how good warbird/military is at Sun N Fun next year.

[gary1954]

Umm, Yak-52Tw's are not warbirds. They are recently built civilian specialty aircraft built for civilians. Don't think any of them (tailwheel) were ever used in a military. Basically they are no more warbird than a Legend Cub in green paint and stars and bars. Or a 2013 Waco YMF-5D biplane for that matter.

I understand that , its just that they had round motors , and I love round motors

[marine air]

agreed. They do sound great in the air.

[Taylor Stevenson]

Rest were pseudo warbirds
a ton of T-6s
...
a handful of L birds
a couple O-2s

L-birds saw combat in every theater of combat in WWII. Aside from the C-47 and P-40, I can think of fewer American made aircraft that have as widespread of a WWII combat history than L-4s and L-5s...

L-5s in particular: Italy, ETO, PTO, South Pacific, SEAC, Occupation Forces in ETO and PTO, Burma, FG/BG Hacks, Army, Navy, USMC, RAF, Korea, Malaya... Normandy, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Saipan, Tinian, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

Hey Karen! See what he said about O-2s!

T-6's have been addressed...

The above is said in good humor. I understand what you were implying (i.e. common types), but as an L-bird freak and T-6 pilot, I couldn't let it slide

[gary1954]

Rest were pseudo warbirds
a ton of T-6s
...
a handful of L birds
a couple O-2s

L-birds saw combat in every theater of combat in WWII. Aside from the C-47 and P-40, I can think of fewer American made aircraft that have as widespread of a WWII combat history than L-4s and L-5s...

L-5s in particular: Italy, ETO, PTO, South Pacific, SEAC, Occupation Forces in ETO and PTO, Burma, FG/BG Hacks, Army, Navy, USMC, RAF, Korea, Malaya... Normandy, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Saipan, Tinian, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

Hey Karen! See what he said about O-2s!

T-6's have been addressed...

The above is said in good humor. I understand what you were implying (i.e. common types), but as an L-bird freak and T-6 pilot, I couldn't let it slide

The North American B-25 Medium Bomber served in every theater of combat in WWII is one of those few

[Mike]

Infact Sun N Fun museum had to tow some of their aircraft out on the ramp............P-39 just to make the ramp look less empty

It is a P-63, a different aeroplane altogether with very little other than the cockpit doors interchangable between the two types.

[maradamx3]

I don't consider aircraft that don't serve in battle technical warbirds. The T-6 is a lot cooler than say an L-17, but I don't consider either "true" warbirds. Both had their importance in the military - if it wasn't for the T-6/SNJ then we wouldn't have had pilots to fly the P-51s, Wildcats etc.

...................

Hopefully there will be a better warbird presence at the next Sun 'n Fun!

Especially since next year will be the 4 decade anniversary! Wonder if anything special is planned? More warbirds?

[Boeing666]

Infact Sun N Fun museum had to tow some of their aircraft out on the ramp............P-39 just to make the ramp look less empty

It is a P-63, a different aeroplane altogether with very little other than the cockpit doors interchangable between the two types.

Ok I have no excuse for screwing that one up.

[Boeing666]

Rest were pseudo warbirds
a ton of T-6s
...
a handful of L birds
a couple O-2s

L-birds saw combat in every theater of combat in WWII. Aside from the C-47 and P-40, I can think of fewer American made aircraft that have as widespread of a WWII combat history than L-4s and L-5s...

L-5s in particular: Italy, ETO, PTO, South Pacific, SEAC, Occupation Forces in ETO and PTO, Burma, FG/BG Hacks, Army, Navy, USMC, RAF, Korea, Malaya... Normandy, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Saipan, Tinian, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

Hey Karen! See what he said about O-2s!

T-6's have been addressed...

The above is said in good humor. I understand what you were implying (i.e. common types), but as an L-bird freak and T-6 pilot, I couldn't let it slide

But how many of those O-2s are really O-2s and not just painted Cessna 337s? There were 2,500 Cessna 337s built of which only about 500 were actually O-2s. Someone could just slap some paint on a Cessna 337. The same goes for a lot of the L birds, which had their civilian counterparts. There were 2 Cessna L-27 Blue Canoes - or were they just Cessna 310s painted to look like Blue Canoes?

Hey I saw plenty of RV-8s painted like Mustangs there too, but that doesn't make them warbirds.

[LadyO2Pilot]

Rest were pseudo warbirds
a ton of T-6s
...
a handful of L birds
a couple O-2s

L-birds saw combat in every theater of combat in WWII. Aside from the C-47 and P-40, I can think of fewer American made aircraft that have as widespread of a WWII combat history than L-4s and L-5s...

L-5s in particular: Italy, ETO, PTO, South Pacific, SEAC, Occupation Forces in ETO and PTO, Burma, FG/BG Hacks, Army, Navy, USMC, RAF, Korea, Malaya... Normandy, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Saipan, Tinian, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

Hey Karen! See what he said about O-2s!

T-6's have been addressed...

The above is said in good humor. I understand what you were implying (i.e. common types), but as an L-bird freak and T-6 pilot, I couldn't let it slide

But how many of those O-2s are really O-2s and not just painted Cessna 337s? There were 2,500 Cessna 337s built of which only about 500 were actually O-2s. Someone could just slap some paint on a Cessna 337. The same goes for a lot of the L birds, which had their civilian counterparts. There were 2 Cessna L-27 Blue Canoes - or were they just Cessna 310s painted to look like Blue Canoes?

Hey I saw plenty of RV-8s painted like Mustangs there too, but that doesn't make them warbirds.

You really know how to make friends in the warbird community I do know at least one of the O-2s there was "real" military (not mine). And I will put the combat history on mine up for your inspection any time.......and it has a funny paint scheme which not many novices understand. However, it happens to be accurate for a 23 TASS Nail "Night Bird" that it was.

[Taylor Stevenson]

But how many of those O-2s are really O-2s. The same goes for a lot of the L birds, which had their civilian counterparts.

Hey I saw plenty of RV-8s painted like Mustangs there too, but that doesn't make them warbirds.

Karen's O-2 is an excellent original example. As are quite a few of the examples that frequent Oshkosh... Can't speak for SNF...

Karen,
I can't remember... Does yours still have all the cool radios in the back or did you take them out to save weight? I know you had them at one point. Too cool, regardless!

Boeing666,
As a minor correction. The L-5 had NO civilian counterpart. It was developed from the ground up as a military aircraft.
One of my L-5s flew dozens of missions behind Japanese lines in Burma as well as has documented missions where British and Chandit wounded were evac'd from the front lines. It flew SAR, aerial supply drops, wounded evac, ammo/medical supply runs, etc. If that's not combat history (e.g. "warbird"), I dont know what is.

Once again, the above was said in the sake of education.

(P.S. Personally, if I had an RV I'd put it in a SEAC Spitfire scheme... and I'd be darn proud of it!)

[Ken]

I'll leave the details to the O-2 experts, but there would be a handful of things I'd look for that an O-2 has that a 337 wouldn't: hardpoints and the associated cannon plugs, radio rack (or evidence of removed rack), instrument panel setup, UHF/FM, etc antennas (or evidence of removal), additional window panels on right door, and (on later models) the enlarged left side pilot's window. I'm sure there is more for the trained eye - probably would make a good seperate thread.

Ken

[Randy Wilson]

FYI, 83 L-17A models were built by North American for the Army and National Guard using FY 1947 funds and another 163 L-17B models were ordered from and built by Ryan after they acquired the design. I have always understood that the term warbird meant any aircraft that saw military service, in any role. My 2 cents.

Randy

[LadyO2Pilot]

Taylor....radio rack is not installed...have it all with radios however I have chosen to use the weight saved for "girl bags" and tools...LOL

Ken - good observations for recognizing military 337 A models.

Randy - so correct. For Boeing666, my Father flew L-17s, L-19s and L-5s in combat during the Korean Conflict. He also flew L-5s, L-4s and some other Ls in combat during WWII.