caf looking for new headquarters

[Rauhbatz]

I would put my smart $ on Houston (Ellington) with Atlanta being in second place:

+ Big runways

+ Hangar space

+ City with lots of airplane techs and pilots to recruit

+ Sunshine

[CAPFlyer]

While I agree there are a lot of more attractive locations for CAF Headquarters than Midland TX, I think the point is moot. As I understand the issue, the only thing the new location is going to get is Mr. Brown and some staff. The museum and assets aren't moving anywhere. It is possible that I've misunderstood something though.

Chunks

No, the new location is going to be developed into a "Super Airbase" (direct from the CAF's press release) that will be a year-round attraction. While Airsho and the museum will stay in Midland, the idea here is to create a new attraction of similar or larger size in a bigger tourist city where it will be possible to get more people through the location.

But I see good things with this. It means the local CAF Wings in Midland will get to move into the main CAF complex, putting their aircraft on a bigger stage and giving them better hangars to work in. If they move to Ellington, it gives them the opprotunity to do something only Chino can boast of now - having more than one major aviation museum on the same airport and have the advantage of a major airshow already present so not taking anything away from AirSho. Same with DFW. If they chose Alliance, you'd have the Alliance Air Show, plus 2 CAF Wings, the Cold War Air Museum, Vintage Flying Museum & Greatest Generation Aircraft, and the Cavanaugh Flight Museum within the Metroplex to team up with for various small and large events throughout the year.

[Lynn Allen]

Here we go... Again

[Mudge]

Here we go... Again

My thought exactly!!!

Mudge the disinterested

[kalamazookid]

I don't care where they hangar the planes or what politics are involved, as long as they keep 'em flying.

[k5083]

Speaking as an outsider, some parts of the press release don't seem to hang together and may have been written to avoid angering somebody.

The CAF doesn't have enough assets to create a Super Airbase that is a year-round attraction at some other location AND leave basically all of the current Midland stuff at Midland, unless it pulls back a lot of airplanes currently spread around in various wings and squadrons. So I would expect that the Midland operations and museum would gradually be wound down and transferred to the new home base, despite what the release says.

August

[Red Baaron]

Airplane wise there is very little of interest in Midland unless you happen to be there during the airshow. That is part of the problem. Most of the cool airplanes on the Midland airport are privately owned. I think the idea behind the super base theory is to combine the assets of a couple of CAF units that are located in the same geographical area and develop one large group.

[Mark Allen M]

Just an opinion, but maybe the CAF brass should work more towards trying to keep their existing aircraft fleet healthy as opposed to thinking about purchasing new office furniture.

A 'Super Airbase'? and keep Midland up and running? Usually a wise business plan when assets are low and an economy that is slowly trying to recover, is to condense operations, not expand operations, and wait for more solid recovery to develope. Of course it sounds like this plan wouldn't, or shouldn't, be taking place anytime soon. Relocating to a better geographic is a logical idea if many important pieces fall into place (especially from Midland) but the thought of expansion when so many wings seem to need more assitance from management? And the fact that I would assume the CAF does not have assets to lose if there would to be a failure in relocating elsewhere.

Hmmm! ... well, sounds like someone in the upper level of management has a risky plan figured out. Hope they take into account what could happen to the orgainzation if failure occured.

Best of luck with whatever direction you folks take.

[Tim Savage]

My guess is that they have to maintain the Midland presence because of the community or state's grants for such things as the Commemorative Center etc. My opinion (and my opinion only) that is probably the only thing keeping them in Midland. Be interesting to see what happens once their commitment under those arrangements ends.

[Sasquatch]

[quote=P51]

And what better place than the new "warbird central" up here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest?!

[quote=P51]
Geez, just about anywhere would be better than the Pac NW for the CAF! That's the last place I'd want them to go to, and I live there! I'd rather they be in a more centralized area that a lot of people get to, with good flying weather. It's rainy for 8 months out of every year, with fall-like weather as late as mid-June (the Olympia airshow was recently moved to July for that reason)![/quote]

No, the new location is going to be developed into a "Super Airbase" (direct from the CAF's press release) that will be a year-round attraction. While Airsho and the museum will stay in Midland, the idea here is to create a new attraction of similar or larger size in a bigger tourist city where it will be possible to get more people through the location.

Well, let's see what the JET CITY and local environs has to offer the CAF in the way of a museum at Paine Field:

1) Washington State's #1 tourist destination: the Boeing Factory Tour (Paine Field, Everett, WA)
2) Historic Flight Foundation flying warbirds collection (Paine Field, Everett, WA)
3) Flying Heritage Collection flying warbirds collection (Paine Field, Everett, WA)
4) Future of Flight aviation learning center (Paine Field, Everett, WA)
5) Museum of Flight Restoration Center (Paine Field, Everett, WA)
6) The fabulous "Boeing Red Barn" and Museum of Flight (Boeing Field, Seattle, WA, 1/2-hour south of Everett - antiques, classics, former Champlin Collection of WWI and WWII warbirds, space shuttle mock-up, commercial aircraft, Concorde, and a large collection of space artifiacts, not to mention Boeing Field, chock full of regularly flying and easily photographable Boeing Commercial Aircraft)
7) Kenmore Air Harbor (on Lake Washington at Kenmore, WA, , 1/2-hour east of Everett, for float plane tours of Seattle and scenic/tourist flights to the San Juan Islands and Vancouver and Victoria, BC, Canada)
Olympic Flight Museum (Olympia, WA, flying warbird collection and airshow, plus NW Helicopters, a major helicopter restorer and base, and a WA DOT Fire Cobra and Huey base, 1.5 hours south of Everett)
9) Heritage Flight Museum flying warbirds collection (Bellingham, WA, ~1 hour north of Everett)
10) Naval Air Station Whidbey Island: home of Prowlers, Growlers, and visiting Hornets (about 1 hour and a 20-minute ferry ride north of Everett)
11) Port Townsend Aero Museum: home of antiques and classics, as well as a hands-on aviation restoration skills school for young people (about 1 hour and 40-minute ferry ride northwest of Everett, WA)

--AND--

Only a half-day's drive south (3.5 to 4 hours south of Seattle), two more incredible aircraft museums: the Tillamook Air Museum in Tillamook, Oregon; and the Evergreen Aviation Museumin McMinnville, Oregon.

Hmmmm...I'm sure I'm missing more, but hey, I'm plumb tuckered out just typing all that frothy aviation goodness located in one amazing region!

If CAF wanted exposure to a rockin' large city (make it two, if you want to include Portland) and their inhabitants, and to be part of every wingnut's dream destination, it would be hard to beat the Pacific NW. Not to mention a HUGE pool of very talented airplane people like ex-military, mechanics, pilots, organizational and business types, as well as volunteers and retirees from same looking for something to do.

So, I gotta disagree with you here, P51; I think this would be a PRIME location for the CAF. And the "8 months of rain" is totally inaccurate. Maybe November to January, but hey, in winter, it simply rains rather than snowing, and warbirds do fly on those on-again, off-again kinds of weatherly days. I know, because happily, they fly over my home when they do. But if it really rains hard, you just stay inside and work on the planes, or go to a museum instead of being outdoors watching the warbirds fly.

CAF, c'mon up here and join the party...and make money while you're doing it!

--Tom (CAF member)

Last edited by Sasquatch on Thu May 16, 2013 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Sasquatch]

PS...gee, I was long winded there. Did I mention this is the coffee capital of the world too? (as if you hadn't noticed by my last post, ha ha ha!

Can ya tell I would love to have the CAF up here too?!

Here's a nice cold one for all of you who stayed with that long post; thanks!

--Tom

[Mark Allen M]

Nothing wrong with your proposal Tom, other than the fact you are too 'Pacific' and too 'Northwest' ... to relocate an entity to an upper left corner shuts out the other three corners, so it would seem logical to relocate that entity not to a corner but more toward the center for obvious reasons. So either relocate to an area in the Central Midwest or simply stay in the state of Texas (which seems to be the plan anyway)

[StangStung]

As I recall, Denton was one of CAF's top choices (and it would have been a good one), but local politics killed it. Something about the city not wanting to issue chemical and hazmat permits comes to mind, but I may be wrong. They seem to have a big problem with that (and it's chased some businesses -- and jobs -- away, including a company I used to work for).

I wonder if they'd be more receptive now? CAF would bring a lot of tourism to the area and local businesses would certainly benefit. Jobs, tax money, prosperity... nah, they won't go for it...

Having a family member on the airport board in Denton at the time, I can assure you that Denton really wanted the CAF there. The simplest answer is usually the best - and 99.9% of the time, that answer is "money." The economic incentives (rent/gas) that Midland offered (and some would suggest the CAF "demanded" of Denton - which left some there with a bad taste in their mouths) were simply more than the folks in Denton could compete with, or rather, thought was prudent to compete with.

At the time, I thought (and time seems to have proven me correct) that the Midland choice was the last gasp of trying to keep the CAF a bit of an "old boys club" before economics eventually caught up and now they're right back in the spot they were then - you can't keep these birds flying out of the volunteers' pockets. There has to be some outside source of income generated. That's much easier to generate in/near a major city rather than a secondary city.

[StangStung]

Speaking as an outsider, some parts of the press release don't seem to hang together and may have been written to avoid angering somebody.

The CAF doesn't have enough assets to create a Super Airbase that is a year-round attraction at some other location AND leave basically all of the current Midland stuff at Midland, unless it pulls back a lot of airplanes currently spread around in various wings and squadrons. So I would expect that the Midland operations and museum would gradually be wound down and transferred to the new home base, despite what the release says.

August

Agreed.

You can't take something away, and in the same breath say, "but everything will be just as it was." Smacks to me of "we can still be friends."

What, exactly, would be the point of moving the heart of the CAF to a major metropolitan area (supposedly to draw in more people, thus more money) and then continue to have Airsho in such a remote location and lose the advantage of all those people/dollars?

I'm sure this is written to placate the loyal locals of Midland, or has been mentioned to preserve some current grant/income stream, or some combination thereof.

But at the end of the day, if more people see the planes, hear the stories, and become more involved, then so much the better for the warbirding movement as a whole.

[StangStung]

Double post. Sorry.