CAF logo and brand awareness

JohnB · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:54 pm

Comparing cars to planes can be tricky.

I love planes but have never bought one. In the meantime, I have two collector cars, either of which would get me into a basic GA type.
Yes, they worth more than a GA aircraft...BUT I don't have to pay for a hangar, and agreed value insurance is $600 a year for the pair. No annual is due and if push comes to shove, repairs aren't that expensive...(about $500 a year for one, and the other is just going through post-restoration debugging..so it's still a couple of hundred here and there). Fuel use, even for my thirsty 60s GT type, is chump change compared to AVGAS.

Currently lacking a good job (despite all the talk, being a vet does not help) I won't buy an aircraft until I feel I can throw money at any maintenance or upgrade issue. You can skimp on many things, aircraft is not one them.

When I was young in the early 70s, a nice Bonanza cost about twice what my parents house cost in the best subdivision in town. Today, a loaded Cirrus (with electronics that no one could have imagined in the early 70s...LLTV and flight displays that must make it awfully hard to kill yourself) goes for $800,000 or about twice what a fancy house costs today (I live in a fairly low cost of living area). So it's not money.
Still, flying takes dedication...you have to spend good money to learn, more to upgrade and keep current. But planes like the Cirrus do seem to make IFR and cross countries easier and must appeal to the "Dentist" crowd...well-heeled people who take it up as a hobby...not as a huge passion. (Rather like the guys who buy big buck sports cars but would never subscribe to Road & Track or go to a race).
Meanwhile, any bozo with the bucks (or credit) can buy a BMW....
So there are plenty of reasons...why people don't fly.

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

Ive always dreamed of flying with an volunteering with an active wing but there aren't any in Nj. There is a lot of money here. Big base population. Lots of seasonal tourists. Lots of possible volunteers in one of the most densely populated states. No wing. I understand the roots are in Texas and the flying weather is great down there, but it seems like a lot of their flying fleet is where the money and people are not. That's just my born and raised East Coast opinion though. What we need is a Big Wing. Air Chief Marshall Leigh-Mallory would approve.

Dan K · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:49 pm

jtramo wrote:

Ive always dreamed of flying with an volunteering with an active wing but there aren't any in Nj.

Is this Wing no more?

http://home.comcast.net/~dvwweb/site/?/home/

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

No museum front I'm aware of. I haven't heard back from my membership info request. Something more like a museum front with multiple "celebrity" aircraft types might have more success.

Red Baaron · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 98

I think they had the Storch for a very short amount of time.

jmkendall · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:49 pm

I was a member, I'm not now. And that is why I am not now.

And since we hear about the financial problems of the CAF ( and other Groups as well), it appears the massive inflow of Corporate Sponsorship that changing the name was supposed to engender; did not materialize.

I did a quick google search about CW Sponsorship and find that Companies like Pepsico, and Smith Barney have sponsored Re-enactment events, both Union and Confederate. Guess what? Most of America knows it is just history, that any racial issues are in the mind of the odd beholder; and not the general population.

Speaking of those few who really get tweaked about anything named Confederate ( even though the first Government of our Country was a Confederation....look it up), a boycott and media blitz was initiated against the annual Ball of the Daughters of the Confederacy, a few years ago. And membership went up by almost 75 percent.

Interestingly there are very active hereditary organizations for men and women, of all colors, for the Confederacy, but none to speak of for those whose ancestors fought in the Union.

You decide which group has a lack of pride in their Ancestors.

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:02 pm

navion91104 wrote:

...So we fly for fun? Which leads us to...

Risk Aversion: The younger folks in this country by and large are more risk averse than their Grandparents. The older gentlemen at the CAF SoCal showed me this time and time again. Flying (especially the older airframes) has risk. When you put your posterior in one you accept the risk and mitigate it to the best or your ability.

These are general statements of course and do not speak for everybody, but so are statistics.

Best,

Jason

I would be inclined to disagree with this statement. We have a younger generation that has grown up with "Extreme Sports", X-Games, Jackass movies, YouTube, all showing people doing things that older generations would have never considered (or perhaps they would have if the proper equipment is available). I guess tooling around in heavy metal doesn't quite have the same appeal. I think it's just a matter of P.R. People's eyes will bug out if they hear a car has more than 300 horsepower. Yet, a TBM Avenger, not exactly the highest of high performance aircraft, sports a 1,900 horsepower engine. That's some serious cajones!

Personally, I think we need to see more Collings Foundation type operations -- don't make people come to an airshow, bring the airshow to them! I've been to a number of Collings visits. I haven't scraped up the moolah for a flight experience...but I will! I find the Collings appearances tend to be far more intimate and relaxed than a full-bore airshow and really give people, especially younger ones, an opportunity to get up close and personal.

For the record, I'm 45 years old. I grew up on a steady diet of model airplanes, big budget World War II movies, dozens of library books and "The World at War" on TV. Airplanes were always part of my life from my youth. I'm thrilled that I finally made the decision to "step up" to be able to help out with restoring "the real thing". It's like being able to live a dream.

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:06 pm

jtramo wrote:

Ive always dreamed of flying with an volunteering with an active wing but there aren't any in Nj. There is a lot of money here. Big base population. Lots of seasonal tourists. Lots of possible volunteers in one of the most densely populated states. No wing. I understand the roots are in Texas and the flying weather is great down there, but it seems like a lot of their flying fleet is where the money and people are not. That's just my born and raised East Coast opinion though. What we need is a Big Wing. Air Chief Marshall Leigh-Mallory would approve.

Sometimes you need to travel a bit. From my house, it's usually a 1 hour 40 minute trip up to Jack Kosko's place (and two hours on the return trip due to rush hour). It's well worth the trip and the effort. Two hours from certain parts of NJ should put you close to something?

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

SaxMan wrote:

I would be inclined to disagree with this statement. We have a younger generation that has grown up with "Extreme Sports", X-Games, Jackass movies, YouTube, all showing people doing things that older generations would have never considered (or perhaps they would have if the proper equipment is available). I guess tooling around in heavy metal doesn't quite have the same appeal. I think it's just a matter of P.R. People's eyes will bug out if they hear a car has more than 300 horsepower. Yet, a TBM Avenger, not exactly the highest of high performance aircraft, sports a 1,900 horsepower engine. That's some serious cajones!

Personally, I think we need to see more Collings Foundation type operations -- don't make people come to an airshow, bring the airshow to them! I've been to a number of Collings visits. I haven't scraped up the moolah for a flight experience...but I will! I find the Collings appearances tend to be far more intimate and relaxed than a full-bore airshow and really give people, especially younger ones, an opportunity to get up close and personal.

For the record, I'm 45 years old. I grew up on a steady diet of model airplanes, big budget World War II movies, dozens of library books and "The World at War" on TV. Airplanes were always part of my life from my youth. I'm thrilled that I finally made the decision to "step up" to be able to help out with restoring "the real thing". It's like being able to live a dream.

I agree 100% SaxMan. I've not been able to step-up on work on these airplanes, mostly due to location, but I am enjoying writing about and photographing these wonderful aircraft and interviewing the men who flew them into harms way.

At 42 I still enjoy Baa Baa Blacksheep, Strategic Air Command, The Right Stuff, and all the wonderful classic WWII & flying movies from way back. MY book collection which started when I was 10 with the purchase of Jim Sullivan's F4U Corsair Fighting Colors book (which cost an incredible $5.95!!) has grown to almost 1,000 covering everything from Kitty Hawk and the Vin Fiz to Iraqi Freedom and the Space Shuttle.

Chappie

rwdfresno · **Posted:** Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:57 am

The topic has digressed but to a just as valid discussion. It doesn't seem liek the brand awareness has done much for the CAF, but obviously it is just one factor.

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

SaxMan wrote:

jtramo wrote:

Ive always dreamed of flying with an volunteering with an active wing but there aren't any in Nj. There is a lot of money here. Big base population. Lots of seasonal tourists. Lots of possible volunteers in one of the most densely populated states. No wing. I understand the roots are in Texas and the flying weather is great down there, but it seems like a lot of their flying fleet is where the money and people are not. That's just my born and raised East Coast opinion though. What we need is a Big Wing. Air Chief Marshall Leigh-Mallory would approve.

Sometimes you need to travel a bit. From my house, it's usually a 1 hour 40 minute trip up to Jack Kosko's place (and two hours on the return trip due to rush hour). It's well worth the trip and the effort. Two hours from certain parts of NJ should put you close to something?

THis is true. I began volunteering at AMPHA at Republic but its 2-4 hours each way depending on traffic, $45 in tolls (not a typo) and $40 in gas. Thats a lot of time and money to volunteer for a few hours a day. I know beggars can't be choosers. Maybe I can buy a cheapo 152 (a goal anyway eventually) and fly up there quicker and cheaper!

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

I think its more of a hot button for Lawyers but read this recent one:

http://jalopnik.com/5939414/models-of-t ... erate-flag

Airlift48 · **Joined:** Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 744

jtbramo,

We're not the CAF, but we ARE in NJ. Why dont you come out and help us work on out C-97?

www.spiritoffreedom.org

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

I'd love to if its at Miller. I live in Eatontown right off the parkway. I fly with Jason C and he said it was out in the PIT area. Ill exchange info with you via Pm and when it's around let me know.

Misterg97 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:11 pm

jtramo wrote:

I'd love to if its at Miller. I live in Eatontown right off the parkway. I fly with Jason C and he said it was out in the PIT area. Ill exchange info with you via Pm and when it's around let me know.

Airlift48 as well.

I grew up in Perth Amboy and following myAF time lived in Hazlet for almost 50 years before my move to Ohio ..

My warbird time is volunteering at the AF Museum.

Just a quick "Hello" to the "Garden Staters"

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CAF logo and brand awareness

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