Greenland B17s

[Rocket88]

According to what I read, the location of the P38s and B17s from the lost squadron are known based on the location of the other two aircraft already discovered. The salvage team that recovered glacier girl will go after whichever aircraft you'd like from the lost squadron, granted you obtain and pay for the salvage rights and pay for the expedition, 100% up front, regardless what comes out of the hole once located. Big risk for a crumpled p38 or B17.

John, is your team up there now looking for the Duck?

[CoastieJohn]

According to what I read, the location of the P38s and B17s from the lost squadron are known based on the location of the other two aircraft already discovered. The salvage team that recovered glacier girl will go after whichever aircraft you'd like from the lost squadron, granted you obtain and pay for the salvage rights and pay for the expedition, 100% up front, regardless what comes out of the hole once located. Big risk for a crumpled p38 or B17.

John, is your team up there now looking for the Duck?

Some of the guys (2) that were on the Glacier Gal recovery are on the Duck Hunt now. Lou Sapienza is the CEO of NSP (North South Polar) and WeeGee Smith is the other guy. Gary Larkin and company were there on the 2009 mission. There were some other Glacier Gal folks who we spoke with on specific matters.

http://www.nspolar.us/

Just to clarify my involvement along with another Coastie in the same HQ office, we started with the initial historical research and planning back in 2008. It grew from there with more people and resources. Once we had the crash site figured out, we flew over it in 2008 for photo recon. In 2009 a short trip to the site was done to locate a specific target we had from an airborne sensor. In 2010 a more comprehensive mission was there to bore down to that target. Unfortunately it didn't pan out. Afterward we located some new historical info that gave us a better geographical location and a description of the crashed Duck. We then got some new airborne sensor targets to work. In 2012 the team located a promising target which is where they are right now. The 2012 target is several hundred yards from the 2009/10 target. I was on the 2008, 2009 and 2010 trips. I didn't make the 2012 mission and health issues kept me off this mission. These days I just try to help where I can. Anyway, during the course of the Duck research, we located enough clues to give us a good, future search box for the missing C-53 that has 5 MIA's on it. If we were to fly from roughly west to east, the aircraft layout would be (1) the B-17 call sign PN9E, (2) the Duck, (3) the C-53 search box and then the (4) Lost Squadron planes. I would guesstimate this is all within a 30 - 35 mile range. Some of this is in the new, best selling book Frozen In Time.

Here is the ongoing blog for the current mission.

http://live.boston.com/Event/Frozen_in_ ... ry_mission

[daviemax]

WAIT A MINUTE!! Davie, isn't that a large version of that "mystery" B-17 photo on the Air Pirates site that created a lot of buzz a few years ago? Looks like you cleared that one up!

Also, the way things are now, I wonder if someone will still go after Big Stoop and its mate someday? When you consider how there probably aren't any other available "project" B-17s left besides maybe the stored Brazilian example, and how many of the current projects have new-build fuselage components, it might be worthwhile to get the Greenland planes for all the intact internal parts to build a fuselage around (or at least they'd go a long way towards finishing Desert Rat and the Paul Allen E-model internally). What do you think?

Chris - thanks. I'm not familiar with the Air Pirates photo for whatever reason but if this photo explains it I'm very happy to help out.

[PbyCat-Guy]

Perhaps some unusual curiosity, but what happened to the holes in the ice that the Glacier Girl was pulled up from, did they just leave it open or was pushed snow to fill it up?

[turretguy]

I thought I heard that "Big Stoop's" top turret dome was installed on the "Movie Memphis Belle" when she was leased by the Liberty Foundation (her complete turret was removed to make room for passengers and make it easier to get around inside.)

IIRC, Movie Memphis Belle's top turret dome came from the B-17 in Black Cat Pass as Tallichet's Flying Fortress had the early style Sperry Top Turret dome installed years before Big Stoop was located. The film Memphis Belle, for which Tallichet modified his B-17 (changed waist gun positions, added F-model stinger tail, early top turret dome) was released in 1990 and Big Stoop was not reached until 1990, too late for any recovered parts to have been fitted.
Nick

[Rod Schneider]

...

Last edited by Rod Schneider on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[turretguy]

Rod,
So is the Sperry Turret that I understand is on display at Geneseo, NY (never been, but wanna go) the turret that was in the "Movie Memphis Belle"? Any reason why this turret didn't come with the lease?
Nick

[hang the expense]

The SB-17G that became lodged on the ice cap in an attempt to rescue the C-47 crew was 44-83724. Available records indicate it may have been salvaged and scrapped but this is not confirmed. See photo below, haunting arctic shadows render the scene ghostly and lonely.

Sure looks as if the search radar has been cut out of the nose just like the Labrador b-17.I would doubt seriously that they would have retrieved the airframe by that stage so my bet is its still there.

[hang the expense]

Something is really screwy with that picture. Number two nacelle looks to be broken the more I look at it.Anybody a photoshop wizard?

[Rod Schneider]

Rod,
So is the Sperry Turret that I understand is on display at Geneseo, NY (never been, but wanna go) the turret that was in the "Movie Memphis Belle"? Any reason why this turret didn't come with the lease?
Nick

We asked them to remove it. Unfortunately, doing the type of ride experiences that we do, having a full turret in place makes it extremely difficult to move through that part of the plane. I would have loved to have been able to keep it in, but it just wasn't possible. The turret can easily be reinstalled in the future if that is desired.

[daviemax]

Something is really screwy with that picture. Number two nacelle looks to be broken the more I look at it.Anybody a photoshop wizard?

Clearly the aircraft as it appears in the photograph is no longer airworthy. It does appear that the no. 2 nacelle has been damaged and/or partially removed. Available records indicate this aircraft was assigned to Goose Bay from 21 Dec 48 and officially reclaimed on 5 Aug 49, which does suggest she may have been recovered and scrapped during the short summer months. Unfortunately I do not have the accident report yet, but plan to obtain it and will research this further.

[Rocket88]

According to what I read, the location of the P38s and B17s from the lost squadron are known based on the location of the other two aircraft already discovered. The salvage team that recovered glacier girl will go after whichever aircraft you'd like from the lost squadron, granted you obtain and pay for the salvage rights and pay for the expedition, 100% up front, regardless what comes out of the hole once located. Big risk for a crumpled p38 or B17.

John, is your team up there now looking for the Duck?

Some of the guys (2) that were on the Glacier Gal recovery are on the Duck Hunt now. Lou Sapienza is the CEO of NSP (North South Polar) and WeeGee Smith is the other guy. Gary Larkin and company were there on the 2009 mission. There were some other Glacier Gal folks who we spoke with on specific matters.

http://www.nspolar.us/

Just to clarify my involvement along with another Coastie in the same HQ office, we started with the initial historical research and planning back in 2008. It grew from there with more people and resources. Once we had the crash site figured out, we flew over it in 2008 for photo recon. In 2009 a short trip to the site was done to locate a specific target we had from an airborne sensor. In 2010 a more comprehensive mission was there to bore down to that target. Unfortunately it didn't pan out. Afterward we located some new historical info that gave us a better geographical location and a description of the crashed Duck. We then got some new airborne sensor targets to work. In 2012 the team located a promising target which is where they are right now. The 2012 target is several hundred yards from the 2009/10 target. I was on the 2008, 2009 and 2010 trips. I didn't make the 2012 mission and health issues kept me off this mission. These days I just try to help where I can. Anyway, during the course of the Duck research, we located enough clues to give us a good, future search box for the missing C-53 that has 5 MIA's on it. If we were to fly from roughly west to east, the aircraft layout would be (1) the B-17 call sign PN9E, (2) the Duck, (3) the C-53 search box and then the (4) Lost Squadron planes. I would guesstimate this is all within a 30 - 35 mile range. Some of this is in the new, best selling book Frozen In Time.

Here is the ongoing blog for the current mission.

http://live.boston.com/Event/Frozen_in_ ... ry_mission

Were the bodies ever recovered from the duck or was the crash site never really located?

[CoastieJohn]

According to what I read, the location of the P38s and B17s from the lost squadron are known based on the location of the other two aircraft already discovered. The salvage team that recovered glacier girl will go after whichever aircraft you'd like from the lost squadron, granted you obtain and pay for the salvage rights and pay for the expedition, 100% up front, regardless what comes out of the hole once located. Big risk for a crumpled p38 or B17.

John, is your team up there now looking for the Duck?

Some of the guys (2) that were on the Glacier Gal recovery are on the Duck Hunt now. Lou Sapienza is the CEO of NSP (North South Polar) and WeeGee Smith is the other guy. Gary Larkin and company were there on the 2009 mission. There were some other Glacier Gal folks who we spoke with on specific matters.

http://www.nspolar.us/

Just to clarify my involvement along with another Coastie in the same HQ office, we started with the initial historical research and planning back in 2008. It grew from there with more people and resources. Once we had the crash site figured out, we flew over it in 2008 for photo recon. In 2009 a short trip to the site was done to locate a specific target we had from an airborne sensor. In 2010 a more comprehensive mission was there to bore down to that target. Unfortunately it didn't pan out. Afterward we located some new historical info that gave us a better geographical location and a description of the crashed Duck. We then got some new airborne sensor targets to work. In 2012 the team located a promising target which is where they are right now. The 2012 target is several hundred yards from the 2009/10 target. I was on the 2008, 2009 and 2010 trips. I didn't make the 2012 mission and health issues kept me off this mission. These days I just try to help where I can. Anyway, during the course of the Duck research, we located enough clues to give us a good, future search box for the missing C-53 that has 5 MIA's on it. If we were to fly from roughly west to east, the aircraft layout would be (1) the B-17 call sign PN9E, (2) the Duck, (3) the C-53 search box and then the (4) Lost Squadron planes. I would guesstimate this is all within a 30 - 35 mile range. Some of this is in the new, best selling book Frozen In Time.

Here is the ongoing blog for the current mission.

http://live.boston.com/Event/Frozen_in_ ... ry_mission

Were the bodies ever recovered from the duck or was the crash site never really located?

No, the bodies have not been recovered. We have the crash site area pinpointed, it's matter of confirming where exactly under the ice the airframe is. That is what the team is working on now. When you read the blog, you can see the team plans to lower someone into a bore hole to look at and possibly retrieve something. High winds have been hurting the efforts.

[tom d. friedman]

WAIT A MINUTE!! Davie, isn't that a large version of that "mystery" B-17 photo on the Air Pirates site that created a lot of buzz a few years ago? Looks like you cleared that one up!

Also, the way things are now, I wonder if someone will still go after Big Stoop and its mate someday? When you consider how there probably aren't any other available "project" B-17s left besides maybe the stored Brazilian example, and how many of the current projects have new-build fuselage components, it might be worthwhile to get the Greenland planes for all the intact internal parts to build a fuselage around (or at least they'd go a long way towards finishing Desert Rat and the Paul Allen E-model internally). What do you think?

there is still a viable b-17 restoration being privately done in urbana ohio, near cincinatti although slow w/progress.

[Rocket88]

I would love to see more B17s flying. I would also like to see more B29s flying (we should have 2 soon, and could've had 3 had it not been for that mishap in Greenland). I would love to see at least 1 B26 flying, and more B24s flying. I've read the depressing stories about the race to disarm, the rows of B17s for miles, alot of them brand new, cut up for scrap 1 at a time. We are lucky to have what we have