Warbird Information Exchange

What he said X2

X3

So now I'm a "fearmonger?" Great. I'll wear that moniker on my sleeve if need be.

I'm not trying to generate fear here folks. I'm trying to generate some constructive discussion on the subject. After all it is MY CAF that I care so deeply about that it warrants these discussions.

I don't see how being fiscally responsible is "fearmongering."
I don't see how pointing out what was said in Mr. Brown's earlier press releases is "fearmongering."
I don't see how using the organization's prior HQ "Moving" history is "fearmongering."

What I do see is a membership that remains silent and allows its employees dictate the direction of the CAF. We have become "laissez faire" and have forgotten that it is the membership (its wings, squadrons, sponsor groups and mostly ITS MEMBERS) that makes it a vital organization. We veer away from its original purpose, its own organizational history and throw away the culture of what made the CAF so great in the first place. (And yes, that includes diluting the concepts of all of us being "Rebels" and the great southern traditions of the original Confederate Air Force). We've become complacent. We've allowed management manage us out of the business of preserving, protecting and flying these historic aircraft.

So if I'm a "fearmonger" because I want my CAF back, then I'll wear that name proudly.

For 33 years, my life and my family have given to the CAF. The airplane we rescued took over birthdays, college graduations, holidays and family gatherings EVERY year as we restored her back to life.

We've become complacent out of laziness, and fear of not speaking up.

I've never been that way in my life. And I'm not starting now.

Success is hard fought folks. It's not easy.

Don't take the "easy" route. Make your CAF your CAF.

Okay Chunks, so I'm a bad person for calling it "fearmongering", but it's okay for someone else to call Randy a "company man"? Really? Okay, then what do you call the statements made in those articles and by others that are the realm of "big bad corporation" and other conspiracy theories? Reasoned logic? And then you go right into the branding issue again. Fine, you don't like it. At the same time, a reasoned person isn't going to make statements like you did.

You want to have a realistic debate about whether it's fiscally responsible? Go ahead. I submit that keeping HQ in Midland is continuing to cost the organization because of the cost of getting out there for many people. I submit it's hard to find big sponsors for the AirSho because of that as well, they don't see the business sense in putting a lot of money in for fuel and appearance fees to an airshow that doesn't pull in the kind of General Public numbers that a Wings Over Houston or Thunder Over Michigan gets. You move it to a major metropolitan area, and it changes that dynamic.

I guess in the end I find it very ironic that even if the CAF is wanting to divest itself of the museum and move everything somewhere else, it's now the same people who moaned and groaned about it moving to Midland are the ones making the most noise on here about it moving FROM Midland where supposedly they thought it was fiscally irresponsible to move in the first place.

How about this - if you don't like the CAF looking at moving, then don't say anything about it here. Go to AirSho and vote or send in your absentee ballot. It's that simple. Don't come on hear throwing out conspiracies about how evil the organization is and then don't do anything about it. If you're not a member, then just drop the issue. The only reason I posted is because Randy was called a "Company Man" and statements were made that couldn't be supported by any of the facts in evidence (i.e. actual published press releases). Believe what you want, but I take things at face value until proven otherwise. Why? Because then if they're lying, they'll have to pay the price for it. It's no skin off my back.

So...
I posted my "I don't get it" query a page or so back, and I was directed to read some CAF press releases. I did read them. I'm STILL not sure I understand what's really being proposed and why.

I gleaned the following information from reading the CAF's press releases and the CAF's responses to allegations that were made by various people in various newspapers and on various internet forums:
- The Museum is staying in Midland, and it's going to be improved and enlarged.
- The airplanes are staying in Midland, and more might be coming there.
- Airsho will continue to be held in Midland, and it's going to get bigger and better.
- The offices of the dozen or so senior staffers is moving to one of eight proposed new locations.

So...
I apologize for this, folks, but maybe I really am as dumb as a fence post. I still just don't get it. Other than the senior staff moving to some new digs, what exactly is the purpose of the proposed "SuperBase"? What will be located there? Will new airplanes be acquired and based there? Will outlying Squadrons and Wings be pulled in and based there? Will a new Museum be built there? What kind of events will take place there? Will there be an "Airsho II" or something similar?

Again, I'm really sorry if I seem like a blockhead for not getting this, and you all know (or at least I hope you do) that I'm not the type of person who stirs up poo poo for the heck of it. This proposal is obviously a big issue that deeply affects a lot of people, and I just want to understand what's really going on. I have no horse in this race. I'm just seeking knowledge.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

CAPFlyer, a couple of points to ponder:

1) If you look back at the CAF's history (or if you were around like I was), the decision to move the CAF out of Harlingen was made because quite truthfully, we were being "forced" out. The Harlingen Airport literally had plans to build right on top of CAF facilities down in the Valley.

2) When the decision was made to move from Harlingen to Midland it was an extensive process. It didn't happen six months. There were also major benefactors that were funding the move to Midland.

3) Was it fiscally irresponsible to move from Harlingen to Midland? That would be hard to gauge. But if you look at the costs in membership losses, and the true out-of-pocket costs to the CAF most likely your statement is true. Without quoting facts, I would offer a guess that the true "cost" of that move was substantially more than what the Midland folks offered to the CAF. So knowing this information, why would "we" want to incur the unknown and substantial costs again? Do we have a benefactor(s) (such as the Harlingen to Midland move had) that can write a check to cover those costs?

4) Your submission that having the bigger city/metropolis to draw upon greater membership, bigger sponsors, etc. is valid. I never said that a bigger venue for the CAF would not be of benefit to the CAF. What I have tried to say is that we have to be able to pay for what we have right now first. If we do want to move to a bigger, better, city then we should be fiscally strong enough to take the hit. Would it be better to be in Dallas? Smyrna? Etc.? Probably yes. But let's go for a well planned out move with the fiscal resources first to finance such a move.

5) I would hope that we aren't looking at divesting ourselves of the museum period. That would be a tragedy at historic levels. The museum is a vital and integral part of the CAF and is a national treasure.

Finally, I want to add that I'm not insinuating that there is a "conspiracy theory" that current management is a "big bad corporation." While I'm not excited about how large (size-wise) the "tramp stamp" is on our aircraft, I do think that a certain amount of branding is a good thing. I apologize to Randy for using the moniker of being a "company man." I've known Randy for years. The point was and is, that he was/is publishing the company's stance.

Oh, and I'll be at Airsho. I'll be there with bells on. (27 years and counting!) And it is "skin on my back," I've sweated and worked an awful lot of volunteer hours for the CAF (and will continue to do so).

You see, I truly believe in the CAF and its mission.

If sharing a link to a new press release that is an official statement on the issue is "publishing the company's stance", I guess I plead guilty but it isn't a stance. It is trying to share what is really happening while some others are/may not, at least as far as I personally know. I believe someone here said that there was no evidence for the CAF wishing to support its future presence in Midland, the museum, HSW Wing, etc. The link seemed to respond to that. That is pretty much all I feel like adding to this thread, as we have a lot of work to get ready for AIRSHO in just four weeks. If anyone wishes to PM me, I would simply ask that you identify yourself so I know to whom I am responding. I can't promise that I can answer much that isn't already said but will try and help get answers to your questions.

The best advice I can give to any CAF Colonel who has a question or comment about the "move" or anything related is to call HQ (432-563-1000) and ask to talk to Steve Brown, or if your question is more museum related Autumn Vest. I would be very surprised if you didn't have a chance to talk with one or the other in a reasonable amount of time (both do travel at times). I look forward to seeing all of you who are members or fans of the CAF at AIRSHO. Fly safe and all the best.

Randy

capflyer said
I think you meant to post this on the capflyer information exchange. How about this, if you don't like that people have differing opinions don't read my posts. I don't think I've said anything unreasonable in my previous post, as you claim. I'm obviously not the only one that has questions about the proposed move.

Chunks

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Jack McDonnel

T-6/SNJ Hoarder

Steve Brown just needs to answer (to me anyway) one question...........................How are we going to pay for this move? Even if we don't get sued it will cost??
We have been aware of the Base Concept for years. This "Super Base" concept for only a few months. What is the rush? Ooops that is another question!

I'll second you on asking that other question, Ober!

As a side note, one of the choices - Alliance Airport - (according to the latest issue of Forbes magazine) is a development project of Ross Perot, Jr. and is also in close proximity to both the Metroplex and the Cavanaugh museum. Would dealing with a private entity be more advantageous as opposed to dealing with the myriad politics of municipally/federally-owned sites?

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Bob

That's not what I said, so why don't you try reading the entire paragraph and posting your response in context.

" I never said a red line"...

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Jack McDonnel

T-6/SNJ Hoarder

So both the Odessa American and the Midland Reporter Telegram have responded to Steve Brown's proposal. See: http://www.mywesttexas.com/top_stories/ ... 963f4.html and the corresponding editorial: http://www.oaoa.com/editorial/views/our ... f6878.html

CAF members, I urge you to keep yourself informed on the "whole" story.

If it would do any good to say "I TOLD YOU SO" I would holler it at the top of my lungs. Don't piss up my leg and tell me it is raining Steve! Time for you to go..........away, far, far away! Back to Yankee land from whence you came.

Some qualifications, opinions, and observations:

1. I'm not a member of the CAF. I have no interest in whether it moves or stays in place.

2. Any warbird organization, no matter the size, that is not looking to adapt itself to changing market conditions, as well as operational considerations, creates a hard environment for itself to grow.

3. At one point, I was told by a life member that the aging population of CAF members is beginning to impact the level of participation at Midland and elsewhere. A volunteer organization without enough volunteers and without enough population to generate more volunteers faces a tough proposition for continued operations.

4. Skin in the game is important (as in, volunteer hours, years of membership, public assistance, grants, etc.). But stacks of $50's and $100's make airplanes fly. No disrespect to the respective cities, or the foundations which underwrote past operations, but today and tomorrow are what determine how an organization survives, not what was donated, expended, or granted 20 years ago. If those previously supportive entities are prepared to endow the organization with stacks of $50's and $100's to continue operations, then by all means they have a very strong say in where an organization goes in the future. Otherwise, the fiduciary powers need to exercise their authority and do what is best for the organization.

5. As emotional a response as a move generates, it can also have positive effects- moving an organization gives a fresh market, fresh population to access, and fresh sponsors. This is only one consideration of a move.

6. Leadership is key in moving any organization forward. In this case, my gut feeling is that nothing is going to go positively unless there is some extraordinary leadership making it happen. I don't know who Stephan Brown is or anything about him- this is not a commentary on him. I am just saying that any engineered sea change in an organization requires the kind of exceptional leadership that is rare to find in any place and not everybody is going to be happy.

7. I wish the organization and membership well. I know this is not going to be easy, but in my humble warbird experience-based opinion, it is necessary. Good luck.

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