Warbird Information Exchange

at this time, better rugged on site preservation than absolutely no preservation. the long term quandry is this....... if recovered, & the ghost is restored, then does she just become another early model b-17?? or is it prudent to recover the ghost & preserve it in as found condition & display it in a diorama setting format. aside from being an early model b-17, i don't think it has that significant of a combat history. this is the same dilemma facing the museum that now has the b-25 dubbed "lady of the lake" that was raised in a north carolina lake this past september of 2005. regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

From out of 12,726 built and only 52 (in all conditions and only 11 flying to people who would otherwise not have contact with a Flying Fortress) airframes "surviving" today.

The question is: Since when did any B-17 become just another B-17, early or otherwise?

I believe ALL are important and tell an amazing story of bravery and sacrifice.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

robb, the b-25 recovered this past september in the north carolina lake is the only known bird with the lower turret & turret lowering gear. it has been determined to restore it static or flying would render it as just another mitchell regardless of the ultra rare turret accessory.. being displayed as recovered wrecked makes her unique. i would think the same philosophy should apply to the ghost, regardless of what her physical attributes are. now..... if she was colin kelly's bird.... then we would be talking an entirely different point of view!! historical operation is the key here in my view. all the best, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

What is unique about displaying a wreck? It is still a wreck! Not much of a tribute in my opinion.

I guess those folks that find rare old cars in a barn should just display them all as found rather than restore and show them off.

Most of the warbirds that I and other enthusiasts see don't come from an airport near enough to my home to allow me to visit. They fly in to the airshows I attend.

Of course the likelyhood that I (or anyone else on this board) will ever get to visit "Swamp Ghost" in her current location is even more remote.

IMO the Swamp Ghost is almost like a tourist attraction/memorial these days. In just the same way that people will travel to see the Eiffel Tower, Empire State Building, Colloseum or even travel to attend an international airshow, people who are interested will get there somehow.

I know Justin (a forum member) has visited the site on numerous occasions. Unfortunately I missed out on going by two days - But next trip...

I've seen plenty of warbirds the past few years, and to be honest, am bored of it. I've also seen plenty of tanks restored in museums, and even the handful running - but the best thing was actually being in the battlefields, feeling the heat and the stench of the kunai and just standing on the ground that Australian tanks fought on near Buna was something that will remain with me forever - the same will go for when I get to the Swamp Ghost.

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Daniel Leahy

PACIFIC WRECK DATABASE
http://www.pacificwrecks.com

PACIFIC GHOSTS
http://www.pacificghosts.com

In one of the photos I count about 20 people standing or sitting on the plane. Could they at least build some kind of wooden pontoon platform/walkway around it and have the tour guides keep everybody off the plane if they're so serious about preserving it?

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

the display of a wreck in it's found state speaks volumes as to the terrain & atmosphere in which it fought, nothing sanitized & polished. it also informs a largely clueless population of average museum visitors of what these pilots & crews physically endured on the ground, from day to day, or in survival situations.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

a post statement......... alot of recovered wrecks are not worth restoring to static display let alone operational. better to display it as found than put it to the torch. this philosophy should still be deemed as preservation minded.. regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

This I agree with completely!

Hundreds if not thousands of Aussies pay a lot of money to walk the Kokoda Trail,Just to live the experience of their fathers friends and heros.
And they will pay to see such things as the Swamp Ghost.
You have to remember these people have nothing they get nothing from the Australian government because John Howard has this thing about all black people.He is a sad little man.

Then maybe a few coins will go Swamp Ghost's way to get a roof over
her...get 'er up outa the dirt, and maybe the locals will benefit as well.
Sorry Mick, "sad politicians" seem to be a universal phenomena..

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

HI WOULD THE A25 BEEN BETTER LEFT AS DISCOVERED? BOY THAT WOULD HAVE SAVED ALLOT OF WORK I HAVE TO DISAGREE OF THE DISPLAY IT AS RECOVERED MIND SET ON MANY OF THE RELICS.FOR EXAMPLE SOME OF THE VERY RARE Japanese STUFF THAT WILL SOON NO LONGER EXIST A MAJOR EFFORT SHOULD BE MADE BEFORE ITS TOO LATE TO RECOVER AND PRESERVE THEM.ONLY 5 COMPLETE SB2CS EXIST THE A25 WILL INCREASE THIS NUMBER TO 6 AND WILL ALLOW AN A/C THAT WAS THOUGHT TO BE BEYOND HOPE TO BE DISPLAYED FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.THANKS MIKE

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

If someone ever gets permission to recover Swamp Ghost, how are they going to dig it out of the swamp without further damaging the aircraft? In photos I've seen, it looks like the swamp is growing right through the fuselage. Just something the recovery team would have to consider if they indeed get salvage rights, which IMO will probably never happen.

If it is ever successfully recovered I think that it should be restored using as much of the original material as possible.

Matt, your resident Swamp Ghost recovery pessimist

They're probably still waiting for the environmental impact report...

i say discover, recover & determine if preservation is feasible in 1 of 2 ways...... period. #1- if preservation is feasible to original condition then great!! preserve it!! if not then revert to option # 2, that being preserve the wreck as found. re-create the surroundings as the relic was discovered in a museum diorama evironment. i think it would be interesting!! for perspective think of this.... how many wix members are scuba certified?? i'd bet under 5 % if that!! point being how many of us can enjoy diving on a warbird wreck?? let alone how many of us can afford travel to the far reaches of the planet to view wrecks in their final resting places. 1 stipulation.... i would most definetely not disturb a site deemed as a war grave where recovery of remains would be not respectable.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!