mystery wreck site identification help needed

[michael barnette]

I was wondering if I could get some help potentially identifying any bits or pieces from the following two sites. These are two distinct sites separated by a significant distance, but may still be associated with each other. Or not.
The first site consists of the main portion of a wing, upside down, with a chunk of the fuselage. We think this is from a B-47E.











Sorry for the poor quality video frame grabs. Regardless, any thoughts on this site?

Cheers,
Mike

[michael barnette]

Here is the second site. Two large piles of debris. Two sets of double landing gear wheels (pic 4). What appears to be two engines (pic 1). Perhaps the tail assembly (rudder stem and stabilizer portion) in pic 5. Given the size of the site, no noticeable flying surfaces aside from one limited bit (pic 3), hence the potential theory the wing from the above post is related. There is no other debris around the wing wreck site.











Anyway, we would definitely appreciate any thoughts or input on these images. We plan to get out in a few months to capture much more detailed imagery and video.

Cheers,
Mike

[michael barnette]

A couple better quality grabs of the engines and the two sets of wheels (one is dead center behind the fish, the other set to the right of the screen)....

[The Inspector]

Let's try posting this for the second time-The interwebs list one admitted to crash of a B-47 over water (less a couple of EB-47 Ravens).
B-47E-95-BW 52-534 l/n 450819, disappeared on a non stop flight from McDill to a 'european base' on 3/10/56 while carrying two 'items'. It was descending through cloud cover to meetup with a tanker and never arrived.
There were a number of B-47 'incidents' over water or near shorelines that involved aircraft carrying 'items' including a few jettisonings and aircraft crashes. This appears to be in semi tropical type waters judging by the very light blue water and the fish, but you list no speculation on where the remains might be. That sure looks like B-47 main gear assemblies.

[michael barnette]

Let's try posting this for the second time-The interwebs list one admitted to crash of a B-47 over water (less a couple of EB-47 Ravens).
B-47E-95-BW 52-534 l/n 450819, disappeared on a non stop flight from McDill to a 'european base' on 3/10/56 while carrying two 'items'. It was descending through cloud cover to meetup with a tanker and never arrived.
There were a number of B-47 'incidents' over water or near shorelines that involved aircraft carrying 'items' including a few jettisonings and aircraft crashes. This appears to be in semi tropical type waters judging by the very light blue water and the fish, but you list no speculation on where the remains might be. That sure looks like B-47 main gear assemblies.

Sorry, this is in the Gulf of Mexico west of Sarasota, FL. Wing is in 300'+ and the other site farther east by 15+ miles in 200'+ of water. We know B-47E call sign "Smokering 60" out of MacDill AFB was lost very near here during a refueling exercise in 1959 and think this could be it. But not sure how the wing could have traveled so far. I was informed there was no fuel cells in the wing to give it buoyancy, so we are unsure if that wing section could have drifted that far before sinking?

[sandiego89]

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I was informed there was no fuel cells in the wing to give it buoyancy, so we are unsure if that wing section could have drifted that far before sinking?

Oh I think it could very well have drifted that far. Even without fuel in the wings (Yes B-47 fuel was mostly in fuselage tanks) there would be trapped air and perhaps fuel from a the wing monted external tank and feed lines that would give some bouyancy. This could have stayed on the surface, or in the water column for some time and drifted for miles. I recall a tail section from a crashed F-14 and another case of perhaps a drone (QF-106 perhaps) that was shot down over the gulf and was found years later hundreds of mile away. Sorry, I can not confirm your wreck, other than give my 2 cents that the wing "could be b-47", shape looks correct, but the 4 wheel boggie gear is not consistant with a B-47. {[color=#BF0000]EDIT: my bad, I got the picture order messed up. That does indeed look like B-47 engines and wheels. Bicycle type.}[/color]Good luck!

Last edited by sandiego89 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

[michael barnette]

but the 4 wheel boggie gear is not consistant with a B-47.

I thought the B-47 had two twin wheel bogies inline of the fuselage? The wreck has two separate two-wheel bogies, not 4-wheel bogies....

[eze240]

I say B-47. In pics 3 and 4 you can see what appears to be the remains of a engine pod mounting, it crosses the wing at the correct angle to be on a B-47. you can also see a number of wing access panels, interestingly, it appears the flaps are completely gone. my guess is the possible engine mount is/was the in-board pod, engines 4 and 5, with the wing possibly ending at the out board engine mount. The size/scale is a bit hard to see, so it seems larger than it really is.
From what I can see of the landing gear, it appears to be two separate two wheel units. The piles of corrosion nearby look to be engines. The other wing like part looks like maybe one of the horizontals, with no elevator attached. The other large pile of corrosion could be a chunk of fuselage.

[CoastieJohn]

The pics look bright for being 200' & 300' down. I recognize some of the fish in the pic but that's about it.

[Pogmusic]

Just a note. Eglin AFB, West of that area, used QB-47s up until the mid 1960s. Might one of them been shot down and "drifted" in the Gulf Vortex current eastward?

[sandiego89]

but the 4 wheel boggie gear is not consistant with a B-47.

I thought the B-47 had two twin wheel bogies inline of the fuselage? The wreck has two separate two-wheel bogies, not 4-wheel bogies....

Ah, my bad. The way the original post read, I confused picture one in the second site as relating to "two sets of double landing gear wheel" as the commentary was not in the same order as the pictures. I can now see that picture one in engines. Yes I concur that everything looks like B-47 bits.

[Pogmusic]

I agree with Coastiejohn. Water is way to bright for that depth.

[michael barnette]

I agree with Coastiejohn. Water is way to bright for that depth.

Sorry, but that is the depths we are talking about. Having personally dived to wrecks in well over 400 feet in the Gulf, you can definitely have spectacular conditions with good ambient light.
Here is a wreck we identified in 380 feet of water - note the underwater images and available light:

http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/fishermen-find-big-one-that-didnt-get-away-a-steamship-resting-miles-off/1139287

Now, back to the mystery wreck?

[michael barnette]

Here is some video of the two sites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80EL8nm6rA

[Alan Alexander]

Since no one else has mentioned this previously, I'm going to go ahead and do it. In addition to the main wheel bogies being consistent with those from a B-47, just above the one that is more to the right can be seen what appears to be one of the "outrigger" LG from the inner nacelles. I know I'm about 10 and1/2 months late, but I need to get a few posts under my belt to get rid of this "former lurker" label! (Sounds like something you have to register with the police for, and maybe put a sign in your front yard when you move to a new community )