Bristols Away ? Beaufighter on the move?
Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:03 pm
Hi Guys -
Lots of background scatter that the Beaufighter project at Dux IS in fact as predicted on the move - I hope that it stays as I rather hoped to see it at Legends one year and it was sort of a pilgrimage every year to come and see it. No knowing what will happen if she is sold on - maybe R3350s and Reno - No Patterson No
Anyway it will be interesting if this is the case but the rumor is now pretty persistant - perhaps it is being confused with the Skysport one but I doubt it
Regards
John P
Lots of background scatter that the Beaufighter project at Dux IS in fact as predicted on the move - I hope that it stays as I rather hoped to see it at Legends one year and it was sort of a pilgrimage every year to come and see it. No knowing what will happen if she is sold on - maybe R3350s and Reno - No Patterson No
Anyway it will be interesting if this is the case but the rumor is now pretty persistant - perhaps it is being confused with the Skysport one but I doubt it
Regards
John P
Beau
Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:26 pm
I hear the one from Point Cook is going to the War Memorial.So there is the one in Siddeney and the one at Moorabbin.But no amount of money can buy the one from Moorabbin.I don't think you can even look inside it without aproval from the committee.After all the sly buggers trying to get their hands on it,the members are willing to bash anyone that goes near it.
It is the only one i know of that has prop blades.I have been in it and turned the engines over.Big blades and it is absolutely complete inside.
It would be nice to take it outside and run her up the building is made to remove the end wall.
It is the only one i know of that has prop blades.I have been in it and turned the engines over.Big blades and it is absolutely complete inside.
It would be nice to take it outside and run her up the building is made to remove the end wall.
Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:18 am
Hi Mick
Thats interesting - I think this is a "kit set " of parts from HARS/ Rob Grienert days and will be great if the AWM do a rebuild like the Beaufort - pity they didn't have the resources to do it for themselves - Perhaps we could join some far fetched dots here - what if the Dux Beau was not to fly after all but went to Point Cook if a well healed benifactor were to be found - stranger things have happened
As for the Duxford deal
Rumor has it that an Australian collector has aquired TFC stalwarts P47 "No Guts No Glory" and the former Australian RAAF Beaufighter Project. This is what is said to have happened and there could be other airframes involved. The Ex Doug Arnold P47 "Little Demon" which was exported to Australia is said to be going back as Part of the arrangement. There was no definate outcome as to destination of the aircraft but as the alleged purchaser is a recently established dealer in Warbirds there is no certainty as to the fate of either aircraft. A related purchase of the Ex Arnold Spit Mk18 also still has an undisclosed fate.
It should also be remembered that the alledged purchaser also has recently acquired a Sea Fury (Ex Zuccoli) and several Corsairs and several P51s so perhaps some of these machines are moving around as well.
I view all of this as a healthy transfer of airframes around and refreshes collections - if in fact it is all or any of it true.
Regards
John P
Thats interesting - I think this is a "kit set " of parts from HARS/ Rob Grienert days and will be great if the AWM do a rebuild like the Beaufort - pity they didn't have the resources to do it for themselves - Perhaps we could join some far fetched dots here - what if the Dux Beau was not to fly after all but went to Point Cook if a well healed benifactor were to be found - stranger things have happened
As for the Duxford deal
Rumor has it that an Australian collector has aquired TFC stalwarts P47 "No Guts No Glory" and the former Australian RAAF Beaufighter Project. This is what is said to have happened and there could be other airframes involved. The Ex Doug Arnold P47 "Little Demon" which was exported to Australia is said to be going back as Part of the arrangement. There was no definate outcome as to destination of the aircraft but as the alleged purchaser is a recently established dealer in Warbirds there is no certainty as to the fate of either aircraft. A related purchase of the Ex Arnold Spit Mk18 also still has an undisclosed fate.
It should also be remembered that the alledged purchaser also has recently acquired a Sea Fury (Ex Zuccoli) and several Corsairs and several P51s so perhaps some of these machines are moving around as well.
I view all of this as a healthy transfer of airframes around and refreshes collections - if in fact it is all or any of it true.
Regards
John P
Beaufighter
Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:18 am
Dont cross your fingers and hope the TFC Beau will be coming to Oz.
TFC have another years work to do on the beast before her new owner takes possesion. And by then he probably will have sold it.
Mr Raftis is very straight forward about what hes doing. He thinks he is buying undervalued assets and reselling them at their correct market price.
So far he has proved himself right. Word is last year he traded 13 Ferraris.
Clever fellow, making monkeys out of a lot of long term players.
TFC have another years work to do on the beast before her new owner takes possesion. And by then he probably will have sold it.
Mr Raftis is very straight forward about what hes doing. He thinks he is buying undervalued assets and reselling them at their correct market price.
So far he has proved himself right. Word is last year he traded 13 Ferraris.
Clever fellow, making monkeys out of a lot of long term players.
Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:47 pm
Hi Jungle Bob
As I said I have no problem with Mr Raftis or TFC doing these things it is market forces . I don't think anybody is making monkeys out of anybody. These things are complex and are not as simple as they appear as you know. I wouldn't be surprised what might happen next and good on them for creating a bit of movement. The glass is half full I think. I also don't expect to see a lot of stuff flowing downunder any time soon as was first thought. The Major market is unfortunately in the Northern Hemisphere so thats inevitably where the sales will occur in the main .
Regards
John P
As I said I have no problem with Mr Raftis or TFC doing these things it is market forces . I don't think anybody is making monkeys out of anybody. These things are complex and are not as simple as they appear as you know. I wouldn't be surprised what might happen next and good on them for creating a bit of movement. The glass is half full I think. I also don't expect to see a lot of stuff flowing downunder any time soon as was first thought. The Major market is unfortunately in the Northern Hemisphere so thats inevitably where the sales will occur in the main .
Regards
John P
Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:37 am
Cripes, i used to sleep in the Moorabin Beaufighter back in the early eighties when working the gate over the wekends at MAM! 
She was also a runner on the right engine at that time as I have pictures of the engine running in my collection. Peter Jansen rebuilt both engines to running standard but only the prop blades on the right engine are sound as the one on the left has two blades that are mostly filler due to her years at Portsea Childrens camp.
During her years on her belly on the sand the two bottom blades were buried straight down in wet sand with the predictable results. When the running restoration was carried out in the early eighties that meant out of the six available blades only four were servicable.
Cheers
Tony
She was also a runner on the right engine at that time as I have pictures of the engine running in my collection. Peter Jansen rebuilt both engines to running standard but only the prop blades on the right engine are sound as the one on the left has two blades that are mostly filler due to her years at Portsea Childrens camp.
During her years on her belly on the sand the two bottom blades were buried straight down in wet sand with the predictable results. When the running restoration was carried out in the early eighties that meant out of the six available blades only four were servicable.
Cheers
Tony
Aircraft movements
Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:37 am
I think that previously unobtainable aircraft are becoming obtainable which brings new owners out of the wood work to purchase the once unobtainable. Obviously money talks. Will be interesting to see what other airframes change hands over the next year.
This sure has spiced up the Warbird News lines the last six months!
This sure has spiced up the Warbird News lines the last six months!
Beaufighter movements
Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:59 pm
Hi Guys,
I've watched with interest the activities of Australia's new "Warbird Collector" over the past few months and have finally reached the conclusion that he is nothing more than a Commodities Broker. If you can believe some of the press this guy received when he first became a player in warbird collecting he was to be our new "Messiah of warbirds".
I agree with Setter that it is unlikely that we will see many of his acquisitions finding their way to Oz, and I now feel that there is a very real possibility that either, or both, the ex Zuccoli Sea Fury and the Wiley Mustang will be leaving these shores for the Northern Hemisphere. The flow of traffic may not neccessarily be both ways, although I would be happy beyond belief to see a Beaufighter flying once more in Oz.
Time will tell, from an Australian perspective, whether his influence will be negative or positive, but I'm starting to get a very jittery feeling about this.
Cheers
Browny
I've watched with interest the activities of Australia's new "Warbird Collector" over the past few months and have finally reached the conclusion that he is nothing more than a Commodities Broker. If you can believe some of the press this guy received when he first became a player in warbird collecting he was to be our new "Messiah of warbirds".
I agree with Setter that it is unlikely that we will see many of his acquisitions finding their way to Oz, and I now feel that there is a very real possibility that either, or both, the ex Zuccoli Sea Fury and the Wiley Mustang will be leaving these shores for the Northern Hemisphere. The flow of traffic may not neccessarily be both ways, although I would be happy beyond belief to see a Beaufighter flying once more in Oz.
Time will tell, from an Australian perspective, whether his influence will be negative or positive, but I'm starting to get a very jittery feeling about this.
Cheers
Browny
Beaufighter
Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:43 pm
I have no idea if he has bought the Beaufighter or not,getting it flying would be a big problem,There are no parts around for it.
You could get some blades made but that would cost the darn things turn the wrong way to evrything else,Must be 14" to 18" wide.
I have no idea what parts Point Cook had before their Beau beacme property of the War Memorial or how complete the aircraft was.
Maybee Setter can let us know on that one.
You could get some blades made but that would cost the darn things turn the wrong way to evrything else,Must be 14" to 18" wide.
I have no idea what parts Point Cook had before their Beau beacme property of the War Memorial or how complete the aircraft was.
Maybee Setter can let us know on that one.
Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:00 am
It is appearing like these aircraft are not being formed into a private collection but I dont think its fair to complain about someone becoming a warbird dealer rather than a collector, there are a number of specialist dealers like Courtesy etc in the US.
He is only buying aircraft the current owners are willing to sell, and he is only selling them to others who want to buy them, if he makes a profit on the turnover then thats to his benefit and not the buyers who could have sought out the original seller at the lower price in the first place.
Mick
you have mentioned the RAAFM Beaufighter gonig to the AWM a few times, has that been confirmed anywhere?
regards
Mark P
He is only buying aircraft the current owners are willing to sell, and he is only selling them to others who want to buy them, if he makes a profit on the turnover then thats to his benefit and not the buyers who could have sought out the original seller at the lower price in the first place.
Mick
you have mentioned the RAAFM Beaufighter gonig to the AWM a few times, has that been confirmed anywhere?
regards
Mark P
Beau
Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:34 am
No i can't confirm it nor confirm that all the RAAF Sabres went to lowy.
I think it would be a nice to see a Sabre fly though.
I wonder how long it would take the AWM to do a project like that.
I think it would be a nice to see a Sabre fly though.
I wonder how long it would take the AWM to do a project like that.