The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:56 pm
Hello WIX,
Kenny mentioned on the PV-2D thread that a Lockheed C-60A has been donated to our museum. We are in the pre-beginning phase of bringing her back to life. We decided that we should start a thread on this bird as we breathe life back into the old gal.
This bird has what looks like a very interesting history. We are learning more and more so we thought we would ask the WIX brain trust for any help to piece together a complete history on this Loadstar.
One of the first questions I have for you all is about its earliest history. According to the AAF history cards she was accepted on December 22, 1942. She went to Long Beach in January of 1943 and then to Dallas Modification Center in Texas. After this she served at three navigation schools namely 2530th AAFBU Selman field, LA in April of 1943, 2523rd AAFBU Hondo, TX in October of 1944 and then 2517 AAFBU Ellington Field, TX in May of 1945.
I have seen the AT-18 version used for navigation training which if I am correct the AT-18 was based on the Hudson or shorter version. I am unfamiliar with the C-60A in a navigation training role. Any information that you all might be able to shed on this? What all was done at Lockheed's Dallas Modification Center? I am dreaming but would there be any archives or other sources for documentation/drawings for the mods that may have been done?
My assumption is that they modified a standard C-60A for the navigation training role so I would expect nav student seats down the right side of the fuselage and associated instrumentation. I haven't looked close but I think that there might have been an astrodome on top of the fuselage which would have been consistent with nav mods. Once again any help is greatly appreciated.
This photo which is reported to be from Hondo and is labeled as from an AT-7. It is certainly not AT-7 but likely one the nav trainer versions of the B-34. I wonder if the C-60 mods were similar to this B-34?
This photo posted by ztex shows what might be an AT-18 or possibly our C-60 modified for the nav role. I think that might be a turret support structure way in the back which would make it more of an AT-18 candidate. I doubt that the C-60 ever had a turret
We would like to put her back in the proper WWII configuration so at this point we need to collect as much information as possible on just what that was. I see she came from the factory with a radio operators station with a BC-375, BC-348, SCR-274N etc which is cool but how was the main cabin configured? factory or as modified for nav training.
Lots to learn. Help please!
Kenny mentioned on the PV-2D thread that a Lockheed C-60A has been donated to our museum. We are in the pre-beginning phase of bringing her back to life. We decided that we should start a thread on this bird as we breathe life back into the old gal.
This bird has what looks like a very interesting history. We are learning more and more so we thought we would ask the WIX brain trust for any help to piece together a complete history on this Loadstar.
One of the first questions I have for you all is about its earliest history. According to the AAF history cards she was accepted on December 22, 1942. She went to Long Beach in January of 1943 and then to Dallas Modification Center in Texas. After this she served at three navigation schools namely 2530th AAFBU Selman field, LA in April of 1943, 2523rd AAFBU Hondo, TX in October of 1944 and then 2517 AAFBU Ellington Field, TX in May of 1945.
I have seen the AT-18 version used for navigation training which if I am correct the AT-18 was based on the Hudson or shorter version. I am unfamiliar with the C-60A in a navigation training role. Any information that you all might be able to shed on this? What all was done at Lockheed's Dallas Modification Center? I am dreaming but would there be any archives or other sources for documentation/drawings for the mods that may have been done?
My assumption is that they modified a standard C-60A for the navigation training role so I would expect nav student seats down the right side of the fuselage and associated instrumentation. I haven't looked close but I think that there might have been an astrodome on top of the fuselage which would have been consistent with nav mods. Once again any help is greatly appreciated.
This photo which is reported to be from Hondo and is labeled as from an AT-7. It is certainly not AT-7 but likely one the nav trainer versions of the B-34. I wonder if the C-60 mods were similar to this B-34?
This photo posted by ztex shows what might be an AT-18 or possibly our C-60 modified for the nav role. I think that might be a turret support structure way in the back which would make it more of an AT-18 candidate. I doubt that the C-60 ever had a turret
We would like to put her back in the proper WWII configuration so at this point we need to collect as much information as possible on just what that was. I see she came from the factory with a radio operators station with a BC-375, BC-348, SCR-274N etc which is cool but how was the main cabin configured? factory or as modified for nav training.
Lots to learn. Help please!
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:55 pm
If this gets half as good as the PV-2 thread we are all in for a great read. I can't wait.
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:50 am
Taigh,
Is she still at Yolo?
Andy
Is she still at Yolo?
Andy
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:34 am
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/ ... Submit4=Go
Just a few S/N before. http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... n/3686.htm
and a few S/N after,
Just a few S/N before. http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... n/3686.htm
and a few S/N after,
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:37 am
Taigh, has the Lodestar told a bunch of lies to make her nose grow like that? (think "Pinocchio") 
Seriously, are you planning to restore the nose to its original wartime configuration? I know that's not an easy job, but I'm not aware of you guys shying away from the tough stuff.
Also, will you be able to ferry her home to Stockton, or will she have to be disassembled and trucked?
Seriously, are you planning to restore the nose to its original wartime configuration? I know that's not an easy job, but I'm not aware of you guys shying away from the tough stuff.
Also, will you be able to ferry her home to Stockton, or will she have to be disassembled and trucked?
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:51 am
Wonderful news. Now for a PV-1 and a Hudson and you have the game, set and match...
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:11 am
Taigh, have you talked with Gary Hilton about perhaps using components from "Lady Lodestar" where possible? I desperately wish we could have seen her return to the air here in Hampton Roads, but her center section is tweaked too far for economical repair.
I'll do some digging to see what I can turn up for ya.
Lynn
I'll do some digging to see what I can turn up for ya.
Lynn
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:56 pm
Please don't expect too much from this thread. I'll post updates as I can but they will be irregular as we work on the Loadstar when we are able. Not enough time in the week for regular work and all of the after hours playing that we all want to do.
Yes, she is still at Yolo where she has been for a number of years.
I'm sorry that I still don't have my head wrapped around all of the details yet. This is a fun part where we get to learn about her history and then look at the airframe for the evidence of that history. Then we figure out what point that we want her to represent. Right now we are leaning toward nav trainer but as I said its real early in the project. Things can change with the barometric pressure. selfishly I love the idea of a nav trainer as my father was a B-29 Navigator who trained at Selman Field. I think this bird was elsewhere when he went through his training late in the war.
Thanks mike for the awesome shots. I figured she would have been OD and grey as delivered. The second shot is very interesting with the natural metal and the astrodome. It is my impression that normal C-60's didn't have the astrodome. Was this a nav trainer? Since training aircraft were normally NMF would this C-60A have been delivered in natural metal or possibly stripped at the mod center as is the aircraft in the second photo? I think there was a desperate need for training aircraft at this point in the war and possibly that is why this Loadstar was diverted as a nav trainer.
I have to track down the photo I saw of what looks like a possible Loadstar nav trainer interior but the guys are basically sitting on the floor. One guy is shooting with a sextant out of the side window. There also looks like a fuselage tank of some sorts across from them in the fuselage. Looked like real early crude nav school work to get the students up in the air. Maybe it took a while to get enough of the AT-7's on line and this was a stop gap effort?
Yes, this old gal must have been telling a lot of lies in her career to get that nose to grow like that. I am told that it is a Dee Howard mod or kit. Our PV-1 Super Ventura has a similar mod. From what I can tell though it looks like it was placed on over the original existing nose. I believe that the first bulkhead and nose skins aft of it are still in place underneath. I also think that the Howard nose can be removed to reveal her original proboscis. At least that is my hope. There will be a lot of holes to fill but this is simple especially when compared to the thought of building a whole nose from scratch.
Thankfully this Loadstar has not had as many mods as many other surviving C-60's. The cockpit glass and structure, flap tracks, exhaust, wheels and brakes are the ones identified so far besides the cockpit. She seems to have the original cowling, wing and horizontal stab tips. No mods to the horizontal stabilizer angle of incidence or other major airframe mods. At least to my untrained eye. I think we might be able to restore a lot of her original appearance without massive effort. Our PV-1 Super Ventura has had so many mods that I just can't see her ever going back to stock but who knows. Lockheed's sure seem to be gravitating toward us. No complaints here. Darn impressive aircraft for sure with great engineering and quality.
She is in good shape in my eyes. She will be flown home. No trailer if I can help it. We need to install the overhauled carbs and change tires and the usual work. We need to get her running and then see what all she wants done before we bring her home.
I have asked Gary about a nose cap, and any spare accessories. I hope we can get some running spares from him.
Lots of fun ahead!
Yes, she is still at Yolo where she has been for a number of years.
I'm sorry that I still don't have my head wrapped around all of the details yet. This is a fun part where we get to learn about her history and then look at the airframe for the evidence of that history. Then we figure out what point that we want her to represent. Right now we are leaning toward nav trainer but as I said its real early in the project. Things can change with the barometric pressure. selfishly I love the idea of a nav trainer as my father was a B-29 Navigator who trained at Selman Field. I think this bird was elsewhere when he went through his training late in the war.
Thanks mike for the awesome shots. I figured she would have been OD and grey as delivered. The second shot is very interesting with the natural metal and the astrodome. It is my impression that normal C-60's didn't have the astrodome. Was this a nav trainer? Since training aircraft were normally NMF would this C-60A have been delivered in natural metal or possibly stripped at the mod center as is the aircraft in the second photo? I think there was a desperate need for training aircraft at this point in the war and possibly that is why this Loadstar was diverted as a nav trainer.
I have to track down the photo I saw of what looks like a possible Loadstar nav trainer interior but the guys are basically sitting on the floor. One guy is shooting with a sextant out of the side window. There also looks like a fuselage tank of some sorts across from them in the fuselage. Looked like real early crude nav school work to get the students up in the air. Maybe it took a while to get enough of the AT-7's on line and this was a stop gap effort?
Yes, this old gal must have been telling a lot of lies in her career to get that nose to grow like that. I am told that it is a Dee Howard mod or kit. Our PV-1 Super Ventura has a similar mod. From what I can tell though it looks like it was placed on over the original existing nose. I believe that the first bulkhead and nose skins aft of it are still in place underneath. I also think that the Howard nose can be removed to reveal her original proboscis. At least that is my hope. There will be a lot of holes to fill but this is simple especially when compared to the thought of building a whole nose from scratch.
Thankfully this Loadstar has not had as many mods as many other surviving C-60's. The cockpit glass and structure, flap tracks, exhaust, wheels and brakes are the ones identified so far besides the cockpit. She seems to have the original cowling, wing and horizontal stab tips. No mods to the horizontal stabilizer angle of incidence or other major airframe mods. At least to my untrained eye. I think we might be able to restore a lot of her original appearance without massive effort. Our PV-1 Super Ventura has had so many mods that I just can't see her ever going back to stock but who knows. Lockheed's sure seem to be gravitating toward us. No complaints here. Darn impressive aircraft for sure with great engineering and quality.
She is in good shape in my eyes. She will be flown home. No trailer if I can help it. We need to install the overhauled carbs and change tires and the usual work. We need to get her running and then see what all she wants done before we bring her home.
I have asked Gary about a nose cap, and any spare accessories. I hope we can get some running spares from him.
Lots of fun ahead!
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:28 am
Navigator's Training Book - Selman, Hondo, Ellington.
http://aafcollection.info/items/detail. ... itle!up!20
Hondo - Class 43-16
http://aafcollection.info/items/documen ... -01-00.pdf
The "Astro-dome" (Ellington Class 44-03)
http://aafcollection.info/items/documen ... -01-00.pdf
Browse by Airflied, Aircraft type, Category, etc.. - Lots of documents.
http://aafcollection.info/items/list.php
http://aafcollection.info/items/detail. ... itle!up!20
Hondo - Class 43-16
http://aafcollection.info/items/documen ... -01-00.pdf
The "Astro-dome" (Ellington Class 44-03)
http://aafcollection.info/items/documen ... -01-00.pdf
Browse by Airflied, Aircraft type, Category, etc.. - Lots of documents.
http://aafcollection.info/items/list.php
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:21 am
What are those spots under the Wing of the second picture.......................inspection panels open??
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:05 am
Obergrafeter wrote:What are those spots under the Wing of the second picture.......................inspection panels open??
I believe it's just the wing slots taped over.
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:43 am
Obergrafeter wrote:What are those spots under the Wing of the second picture.......................inspection panels open??
Fixed slats on the outer wings. They're the other pictures as well
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:25 am
Taigh,
You felt that "normal" C-60 didn't have the astrodome.
But most C-60A-5-LO pics I'm coming across have an astrodome mounted, and I don't think they were all equipped exclusively as navigation trainers. The following RAAF examples all served with 37 Squadron, which was--to my knowledge--exclusively involved in airlift operations.
42-56034 (delivered to the Dutch; transferred to RAAF)
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... LT9_31.jpg
42-56044, 43-16452, and 43-16453 (RAAF)
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... 026792.jpg
RNZAF
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... NZ35xx.jpg
You felt that "normal" C-60 didn't have the astrodome.
But most C-60A-5-LO pics I'm coming across have an astrodome mounted, and I don't think they were all equipped exclusively as navigation trainers. The following RAAF examples all served with 37 Squadron, which was--to my knowledge--exclusively involved in airlift operations.
42-56034 (delivered to the Dutch; transferred to RAAF)
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... LT9_31.jpg
42-56044, 43-16452, and 43-16453 (RAAF)
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... 026792.jpg
RNZAF
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/a ... NZ35xx.jpg
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:52 pm
Taigh, can we have nose art on this one????????? Lord knows with the nose she has now there'd be plenty of room! Anyone have any vintage Loadstar nose art pics?
Re: The resurrection of C-60A-5-LO cn 2322 sn 42-55907
Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:27 pm
Redtracer wrote:Taigh, can we have nose art on this one????????? Lord knows with the nose she has now there'd be plenty of room! Anyone have any vintage Loadstar nose art pics?
Maybe Pinocchia the little wooden pin-up girl?