wrecks that need to be saved now

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:18 pm

DoraNineFan wrote:

cooper9411 wrote:

JimH you are correct. There are still many different types of airframes still scattered throughout the continental U.S. alone. Can we save them all? Probably not but we should at least try, that is until all the bureaucratic red tape bulls$$t has to get involved. People think its so easy to " just go salvage one"! I dont think people realize all the different permits, authorization letters that are needed. As of right now I'm sure there are quite a few recoveries on hold until all permits are secured.

Perhaps a start would be attempting to persuade the US Navy to allow recovery of many more of their aircraft that aren't already identified as war graves. The underwater wrecks should be mostly unmolested and there are close to 300 in Lake Michigan.

The navy ( after extensive paperwork ) does allow recoveries of " their" aircraft as long as its for a museum or educational purposes AND an example of which they already have in their collection(s). There's a strong rumor about a Corsair that went into Lake Erie being possibly recovered. Its quite possible that there isn't much left of the aircraft that went into Chesapeake bay and the P-40 in the waters off of Hawaii would be a viable candidate for recovery but no one right now is claiming ownership so its up for grabs so to speak. At least that recovery would be pretty easy to accomplish.

_evan · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Quote:

the P-40 in the waters off of Hawaii would be a viable candidate for recovery but no one right now is claiming ownership so its up for grabs so to speak. At least that recovery would be pretty easy to accomplish.

I'm actually looking to dive this site next year and do a better survey of what's left etc. I am hoping it will better spark someone's interest cause PAM already has two and isn't looking to recover it
.

sandiego89 · **Joined:** Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm **Posts:** 1199

Good list.

I'd like to see a expedition to try to find one of the scuttled Boeing 314 Clippers. Several were sunk in deep water. May be swiss cheese.

Snoopy B-58 on the range at Edwards.

I agree getting some of the gate guard/museum aircraft in harsh climates inside soon would be a better priority.

Rob Mears · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:13 pm

How about the few Japanese aircraft that still remain on Ballale Island? Last I knew, there were two or three multi-engined bombers still sitting there. Tallichet wanted to recover the Betty bomber but there was no port to utilize back in the 1970s. I'm amazed they are still there and largely intact.

Also, the remains of the F4U-1A belonging to Lt. Pillsbury of a VF-17 are still there as well, among other types.

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:31 pm

_evan wrote:

Quote:

the P-40 in the waters off of Hawaii would be a viable candidate for recovery but no one right now is claiming ownership so its up for grabs so to speak. At least that recovery would be pretty easy to accomplish.

I'm actually looking to dive this site next year and do a better survey of what's left etc. I am hoping it will better spark someone's interest cause PAM already has two and isn't looking to recover it
.

I have not been there (yet) but allegedly its intact and buried by sand. I'm definitely interested the only thing is the recovery would be fairly simple, but once brought up would need a consistent flow of fresh water and then the cost to ship it to the mainland could be pricey.
As far as any Japanese aircraft they too could be salvaged but local jurisdictions can/will hold up any recoveries. I'd be more than happy to volunteer my time and experience to salvage the P-40 if we could raise the funds necessary. Once recovered she could be christened "WIXey" or some other reference to WIX, of course with Scotts approval!

ProudKerman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:52 am

I agree that alot of wrecks may not be worth recovery for resto but for display in the current condition would be cool atleast in a museum they wouldn't continue to decay like in the wild. What's the deal with the South Pacific aircraft, especially with the B25H?
The Solomon Island aircraft shouldn't be too bad or is that PNG all over again?

I do agree though that some aircraft are too far gone and saving the gate guardians and that would be nice. Like the Iraq Sea Furies, if theres any left, or other aircraft in the same situation, maybe a bit less volatile situations than in Iraq. Any spring to mind.
There are some wrecks that may also be worth recovering like the one of a kind Bristol Brigand?

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1028

I often wonder what are the best wreck or wrecks that have not been found yet. 10 years ago or so there was a rumor about early P-51's in China. Sort of off topic I guess but food (cookies) for thought.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:42 am

don't forget or assume that new guinea / now irian jaya (former dutch new guinea) is explored. they have thousands of square miles of uncharted / unexplored territory & thick jungle to this day. logistics plays a large factor, but those warbirds are in their, & in fresh water lakes, bogs etc. as well as m.i.a.'s remains. we've only scratched the surface on this territory.

DoraNineFan · **Joined:** Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:37 pm **Posts:** 672

PinecastleAAF wrote:

I often wonder what are the best wreck or wrecks that have not been found yet. 10 years ago or so there was a rumor about early P-51's in China. Sort of off topic I guess but food (cookies) for thought.

I believe the freshwater lakes of Europe will have the best examples, if laws will permit recovery. The He-111 and Ju-88 from Norway were stunning recoveries.

peter · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:43 am

What about the P47s in Lake Huron?

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:48 pm

peter wrote:

What about the P47s in Lake Huron?

What about them? Any idea as to an approximate location?

Dan K · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:47 pm

cooper9411 wrote:

peter wrote:

What about the P47s in Lake Huron?

What about them? Any idea as to an approximate location?

One of them, anyway: P-47D 42-74776

"...one mile north and three miles east of Sturgeon Point, MI..."

http://www.theobserver.ca/2012/08/28/un ... -a-mystery

camshaw · **Posted:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:42 pm

[
"...one mile north and three miles east of Sturgeon Point, MI..."

I think the pilot bailed and the plane went straight in at over 200mph i thought I remember reading???

J. Thompson · **Joined:** Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:56 pm **Posts:** 51

I'm ready to find backers for my state-side P-38 that hasn't been seen since '72...
Any takers?

- Joseph

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:00 am

Interesting topic, but I think you're definition should be narrowed down if you're gonna bring this kind of discussion up.

Basically, you could just say everything that is "outside in the weather" should be saved. That means every pole sitter, outside display etc. must be rescued and brought inside for eventually the will fall apart.

I'm not sure what you mean by "must be saved"? You list many airframes that have been already been "saved" or are in containers. (ie: Walter Soplata's aircraft and the Egyptian P-40 come to mind.) Just because they are in the woods or a container doesn't mean they should be "saved" again. Walter SAVED those aircraft years ago. The family is slowly letting them go. It may take a while, but they'll get there. The P-40 in a container is already "saved", as it's in a container. It's importance is known, but we just don't know the details of it's future.

Most you mention should be recovered and preserved or restored, but many places have a tough time keeping the ones they have in proper shape. I'd like to see most of the ones recovered, but I'd really like to see the Sparrowhawks and the Boeing flying boats back on dry land.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving everything, it's just a daunting task.

Jerry

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