B-29 kee bird questions

[cooper9411]

Well at least there are salvageable parts/pieces that could be utilized in other projects.

[whistlingdeath77]

Well my whole idea and most practical aircraft to help would be a c-47. That could at least take the props and smaller things out. As for the biggest pieces I would look at where the fort was assembled when built. Even if rivets needed to be bucked to break the plane up, I would do that for the safety of the team and ensure the plane a safe trip. Don't get me wrong on any level here. What's these guys did was an amazing effort guided by guts and will power.

If a fire broke out while taxing, imagine what could of happened in the air over that type of territory

[Dan Jones]

Since Kee Bird is clearly finished and is likely to remain where it is forever, not to mention it still being a bit of an open wound for many people, I'd like to toss this semi hypothetical exercise out there: Avro Lancaster KB999 ditched in a freshwater lake at approx N61 14 W95 29 in 1952. It looked like this:

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_surv_kb999.htm

(It doesn't look like that anymore, btw but for the purpose of this exercise it does.) Your goal is to get it to Winnipeg, Manitoba. We'll say there's 2500' feet of suitably firm beach available, or in the winter 6ooo' of ice, and it's in the same approx condition as the B-29 was.

So how would you go about salvaging it?

[whistlingdeath77]

At all costs, disassemble the plane and ship it to where a top to bottom restoration could be done. You would need a barge to start....

[whistlingdeath77]

Oh, I never found out if the b-29 in the condition it was currently, take off in 2,000 feet of runway?

[maxum96]

Taken within the last 6 months I believe. Clearly shows what's left at the site.

http://vimeo.com/106871067

I don't fault the guys a bit for trying to get the Kee Bird out of there. But it's just so sad to see that video.

[cooper9411]

Since Kee Bird is clearly finished and is likely to remain where it is forever, not to mention it still being a bit of an open wound for many people, I'd like to toss this semi hypothetical exercise out there: Avro Lancaster KB999 ditched in a freshwater lake at approx N61 14 W95 29 in 1952. It looked like this:

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_surv_kb999.htm

(It doesn't look like that anymore, btw but for the purpose of this exercise it does.) Your goal is to get it to Winnipeg, Manitoba. We'll say there's 2500' feet of suitably firm beach available, or in the winter 6ooo' of ice, and it's in the same approx condition as the B-29 was.

So how would you go about salvaging it?

Use flotation devices to get it off of the bottom and tow it towards the shoreline where it could be dismantled a bit easier. Of course everything is easier said than done!

[CoastieJohn]

Since Kee Bird is clearly finished and is likely to remain where it is forever, not to mention it still being a bit of an open wound for many people, I'd like to toss this semi hypothetical exercise out there: Avro Lancaster KB999 ditched in a freshwater lake at approx N61 14 W95 29 in 1952. It looked like this:

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_surv_kb999.htm

(It doesn't look like that anymore, btw but for the purpose of this exercise it does.) Your goal is to get it to Winnipeg, Manitoba. We'll say there's 2500' feet of suitably firm beach available, or in the winter 6ooo' of ice, and it's in the same approx condition as the B-29 was.

So how would you go about salvaging it?

Sounds like you have that one located?

Using your lat/long, that is about 48 miles from Arviat. They have a float plane base as well as a runway. Plus they have an ATV/snowmobile trail that runs out towards that lat/long. I'd bet the locals know a trail to it. Anyway....got to get the plane to Arviat and/or eventually to Churchill. Once in Churchill you can take the ice road down to Hwy 280. If doing this in the summer....who has a DC-3 on floats or a stout helo for sling ops to Arviat? If winter...who has a DC-3 or bigger on skis? I also see Calm Air flies into Arviat and has a Hawker Siddeley 748 cargo/charter. I wouldn't be surprised if they can install some skis on it. If using them, just get the Lancaster to Churchill and take the ice road/280/6 to Winnipeg or put it on the Hudson railway and move it that way. Another option is get it to Arviat and then barge it to Churchill for the ice road or Hudson railway.

I bet the skeeters/flies are severely vicious out on the tundra in the spring/summer. I was in Kuujjuaq caribou hunting once in Sept and there were a few around. Been bear hunting in the Duck Mountains in MB too. Beautiful country.

[Jeremy S]

Taken within the last 6 months I believe. Clearly shows what's left at the site.

http://vimeo.com/106871067

or google Kee Bird video within 2012 to 2014

It looks like the plane experienced some post-fire damage as well. Props are bent and the back of the wing is smashed in like it was pushed with a bulldozer? Hopefully somebody would be able to save whats left someday, there are bound to be some useful parts left.

[Chris Brame]

It looks like the plane experienced some post-fire damage as well. Props are bent and the back of the wing is smashed in like it was pushed with a bulldozer? Hopefully somebody would be able to save whats left someday, there are bound to be some useful parts left.

Not sure about the bent props but at some point the wind caught the tail and blew it into and over the wing.

As far as useful parts, well... there are supposedly enough ex-China Lake components out at Aero Trader to build one last potential flyer, but I haven't heard of anyone beating down their doors to buy them. The folks restoring Doc could have used the Kee Bird's (then) intact fin and rudder, but one was available here, so...

[CoastieJohn]

Here's the 50 cent question. "If" the Kee Bird remains were to be brought back to the U.S. by a new group, would previous salvagers have any claim to the parts/pieces?

[Digger]

Here's the 50 cent question. "If" the Kee Bird remains were to be brought back to the U.S. by a new group, would previous salvagers have any claim to the parts/pieces?

International salvage laws say no they wouldn't but because this occurred on sovereign soil I would suspect some difficulties with the Government. Perhaps an environmental clean up of the site would be the best aproach

[cooper9411]

Here's the 50 cent question. "If" the Kee Bird remains were to be brought back to the U.S. by a new group, would previous salvagers have any claim to the parts/pieces?

International salvage laws say no they wouldn't but because this occurred on sovereign soil I would suspect some difficulties with the Government. Perhaps an environmental clean up of the site would be the best aproach

Depends on how long the salvage permits were good for, but after this much time has elapsed I'm sure if someone wanted to salvage what's left the Greenland government would issue new permits. From my own experience having an environmental cleanup plan in place is needed before permits are issued. For example; even if an aircraft has been submerged for 60 years there still may be fluids inside and once disturbed could leak out. If memory serves correct Larkin's had to do a cleanup of the area before they'd issue him any further permits ( empty barrels, half sunk dozer, and what ever else was left at the site).
I also thought the engines and props had been removed but with the video link above clearly shows them in place.

[CoastieJohn]

Here's the 50 cent question. "If" the Kee Bird remains were to be brought back to the U.S. by a new group, would previous salvagers have any claim to the parts/pieces?

International salvage laws say no they wouldn't but because this occurred on sovereign soil I would suspect some difficulties with the Government. Perhaps an environmental clean up of the site would be the best aproach

Depends on how long the salvage permits were good for, but after this much time has elapsed I'm sure if someone wanted to salvage what's left the Greenland government would issue new permits. From my own experience having an environmental cleanup plan in place is needed before permits are issued. For example; even if an aircraft has been submerged for 60 years there still may be fluids inside and once disturbed could leak out. If memory serves correct Larkin's had to do a cleanup of the area before they'd issue him any further permits ( empty barrels, half sunk dozer, and what ever else was left at the site).
I also thought the engines and props had been removed but with the video link above clearly shows them in place.

I was thinking about previous U.S. salvagers trying to initiate a claim of the parts/pieces when they hit U.S. soil. I can see a dog fight for the engines and other high value parts once they hit the states. The question is do those previous salvagers have a legit claim to those/parts/pieces?

As it was explained to me by someone close to the events and as I loosely recall how it was told to me, those who "took over" the project were supposed to assume responsibility for everything, including clean-ups. Unfortunately for Gary, the names on the permits were not transferred over like they were supposed to be. So....he was left holding the clean-up bag. If anyone sees I got it wrong please set the record straight.

[cooper9411]

Its possible for previous salvagers to try to stake a claim in court but after this length of time the parts/pieces would be considered formally abandoned. If Greenland issues permits those permits would be for parts/pieces at the scene providing they are/once were attached to said aircraft. The costs of involving the courts would not only be expensive but time consuming and ultimately in the end the persons initiating the courts involvement wouldn't be pleased with the outcome.