FG-1D Corsair / bomb supports adapted to rocket racks?

Marco Lavagnino · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 pm **Posts:** 46

I hope somebody can help me with this topic. The FG-1D Corsairs operated by the Salvadoran Air Force (1957-1974) were capable of carrying up to eight 100pd bombs under the wings, hanging from adaptors fixed to the rocket racks (plus two under the standard wingroot supports for a total of ten). In the picture, what seems to be a configuration of six 100pd bombs + probably practice rocket rubes (?) can be seen. I have never found other FG-1Ds/F4U-1Ds showing anything similar, nor have I found any related description. Could somebody help in identifying what type of system this was? I doubt it was a local adaptation, but I don´t discard this possibility, either.

Marco

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Probably nothing to help you with your inquiry, but I recall -no idea as to make, model or type- that there was a bomb-rack that could be mounted to the zero-length rocket rails. I am sure that I have seen photos of these some time in the very distant past. Probably some book on the Korean war aircraft / era.

Maybe this is a possible answer, and could help jog someone's memory?

Saludos,

Tulio

Marco Lavagnino · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 pm **Posts:** 46

Hi Tulio, I have seen these rails that were attached to the rocket racks, but I don´t know whether they could carry 100pd bombs or were for smaller ordnance only. Haven´t been able to find specifications either.

Marco

zorro9 · **Joined:** Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:11 pm **Posts:** 671

MAL:

Happy 2015!!

...there's nothing to it with those FG-1D FAS adapters just rumors! Just like the existence of a FAS 200!!

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Marco Lavagnino wrote:

Hi Tulio, I have seen these rails that were attached to the rocket racks, but I don´t know whether they could carry 100pd bombs or were for smaller ordnance only. Haven´t been able to find specifications either.

Marco

I think those are rails for small practice rockets.

I've seen many, many photos of -4 Corsairs (same wing as -1D) with pylons instead of the small stub rocket mounts. These might be what's on the FAS Corsair in question.

Marco Lavagnino · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 pm **Posts:** 46

Thank you, Snake, F4U-4s used another type of racks, a two-part support where bombs could be carried, quite different from what can be seen in the FAS FG-1Ds. Taking into account the rocket racks capacity to support a 5" HVARs, weighing around 135 pounds, a 100pd bomb + adapter would not be out of the range.

Marco

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

There is something to be said about on-point, coherent, cognizant and appropriate responses to questions. Then of course, there are the scalded-female-dog variety, the bunched-up female underwearer attempts at a wisecrack...

So, leaving the vixen at her game, Marco:

I believe that those racks you mention, capable of carrying a rocket, could very well be the ones that I recall. Let me see if I can find the books and come up with better data than just fading memories.

Saludos,

Tulio

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Marco,

This is what I found so far:

First, I must assume the following:

The bomb-racks and ordnance used by USN Corsairs, would have to be the same whether the Corsair was an F-4U-5, -5N, -5NL, -5P FG-1D, or even an AU- because the Navy would tend to standardize so that the racks, rockets, bombs, and so on, could be used on different models of the Corsair.

Now, if this assumption is true, what follows could very well be what you have been looking for; otherwise, if the FG-1D used a completely different type of racks, then this information would be of little use.

From the AN-01-45HD-1 Pilot's Handbook for the Navy Models F-4U-5, -5N, -5NL, -5P Aircraft dated 15 July 1951, revised 1 June 1952 (Published by Schiffer Military History Books - copied from the collection of John M. Campbell, and published in 1995) ISBN 0-88740-821-4

Section IV, Operational Equipment:
on Page 42:

4-16. Bombs and Rockets.

"4-17. Description. Either bombs, 11.75" rockets, or Mk.5 Mod. 4 external auxiliary fuel tanks can be carried on the electrically operated Mk. 51, Mod. 12 bomb racks within the two center section and the centerline pylons, while eight 3.5 inch or 5-inch rockets can be carried on the four Mk.9, Mod. 3 launchers on each outer wing panel (see figure 4-1). The Mk. 55, Mod. 0 bomb rack is interchangeable with the Mk. 9, Mod. 3 rocket launcher in the outer panel, so that eight bombs can be carried if necessary. ...."

Saludos,

Tulio

jollyrogerf14 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:55 am **Posts:** 50

Just an "un"educated guess,
I've seen these attached to other USN fighters of the time that had zero length rocket pylons. I would assume they were used immediately after WWII up into the Korean confict. I've seen many photos of FM-2s, Hellcats and Corsairs using them with practice bombs and bombs of, I would assume, 200lbs to 250lbs. I'm sure there was a corporate manufacturer, but I bet many were field modified.
What I would commonly see is, the inner three rocket launchers having these racks loaded with bombs and the outboard zero-length rocket launchers with a 5" rocket attached.
I assume the newer "solid" bomb pylon with new wing attachment (in the photo of the VF-193 Corsairs) was conceived at a test facility after some R&D during the late 1940s just in time to be retro-fitted to the F4U-4 for the use of heavier bombs. Rockets could be deployed as well (as evidenced by the ignition wiring harness behind the pylon). I've seen photos of planes in the same squadrons on carriers having the original zero-length rocket launcher, some that have the bomb racks like in your photo, and others with the latest incarnation with the solid bomb rack with new wing attachment.
I guess it depended on the mission as to which launchers were used at any given time.

Of course, I could be completely WRONG! :drink3:

V.C.

Marco Lavagnino · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 pm **Posts:** 46

Hi Tulio and V.C. Well, it looks like we´ll go as far as our educated guesses can take us... Here a couple more elements:

Rocket racks FG-1D/F4U-1D until F4U-4: Mk5 Mod 1 (until Mk3?)
Practice rocket launcher for these: Aircraft launcher Mk6 (this is the type of rail that is clearly seen in FAS FG-1Ds in several pictures).

Rocket racks F4U-1B and all F4U-5 series: Mk9 (Mod3) This is quite different, it is a single rack, not double like the Mk5, BUT, looks like it can take the same Aircraft launcher Mk6 for practice rockets. This type of rack does not use this adapter to carry heavier 100 or 250pd bombs.

So, I am pretty sure that salvadoran FG-1Ds had the Mk5 rocket racks, with the Mk6 Aircraft launcher for practice rockets... what I still can´t find out, is if these Mk6 Aircraft launchers had the capability to carry bombs...( :roll:

)..

Tulio, do you have by chance a picture or drawing of the Mk55 Mod 0 bomb rack? I have the impression that these were specific for the Mk9 rocket racks, they look like caps fitting over the single Mk9 rocket racks (?).

I think that, similar to what V.C. says, FAS 204 picture shows twin practice rocket tubes (Probably AERO-1A 2.75" FFAR Training Launcher) fixed to the outermost racks, and three 100pd bombs hanging from the other racks. Quite different ordnance, isn´t it?

Marco

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:23 pm

Marco Lavagnino wrote:

Hi Tulio, I have seen these rails that were attached to the rocket racks, but I don´t know whether they could carry 100pd bombs or were for smaller ordnance only. Haven´t been able to find specifications either.

Marco

This Corsair has the standard WWII zero length rocket rails that were likely installed at the factory late in the war. Attached to the zero length stubs is an adapter to use a SCAR or sub caliber aircraft rocket. The SCAR was used for training and the smaller cheaper rocket had the same trajectory as the big 5 inch HVAR or High Velocity Aircraft Rocket. The HVAR was quickly becoming the standard rocket in WWII and it served for a long time after in varying forms.

You will often see aircraft of all types usually stateside or carrier based with the SCAR adapters installed which simply meant that they were doing rocket training.

I have not seen any information or photos that would indicate that these WWII zero length rocket rails were used to carry bombs and frankly I do not see just how this could be done safely. Even a 100 pound bomb is wide and would need some kind of sway brace to keep it from breaking out the rocket pylons. These pylons are simple stampings without much in the way of internal structure. Then there is coming up with a release mechanism to drop the bomb. The rear rocket pylon has a simple firing circuit and a mechanical trip release. Nothing close that would easily work to release a bomb.

The later post war Corsairs had completely different multi purpose weapons pylons that could mount drop tanks, rockets and bombs. I think this might be what you are looking for. I will not say that the zero length rocket rails were never used for bombs but I can say that based on my experience and the photos I have come across to date it is very unlikely.

Marco Lavagnino · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:46 pm **Posts:** 46

Yes, indeed, the Mk6 rails for practice rockets are much to weak and don´t have any way of hanging / stabilizing a bomb, just the rail for the rocket and the electrical connection, no way of fixing/releasing mechamism in that slim rail...

Marco

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Marco,

I began looking for the books tonight, but then got really busy, and had to stop. I will continue searching tomorrow; I should come up with something germane to this thread.

Saludos,

Tulio

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FG-1D Corsair / bomb supports adapted to rocket racks?

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