The "Tony"
Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:16 am
Help me out guys!
Wasn't this fighter an exact copy of the German Hienkel He-113. The He-113 was an excellent design that failed to win any significant governmental contracts in Germany.
Wasn't this fighter an exact copy of the German Hienkel He-113. The He-113 was an excellent design that failed to win any significant governmental contracts in Germany.
Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:08 am
no capt lou, the ki61 was a total original design but with a license built db601 engine.
paul
paul
Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:26 am
One of my reference books ("famous fighters of the second world war", Green, 1975) lists the Ki-61 Hien (tony), but it doesn't make any reference to it being a copy of an He-113. The Hien was built around a Daimler Benz DB 601A which was licensed to Kawasaki in 1937, which could be the source of the confusion. The book does call the prototype "obviously influenced by European practice" for whatever that's worth.
Interestingly, there's an authentic Tony in restoration / duplication in progress:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/640.html
http://community.webshots.com/album/235442219eKCadh
I don't have any relieable information on the He-113. It seems to have been a failed Heinkel design that was used primarily for propaganda purposes. The few (only?) prototypes that were built were moved around and repainted frequently in an effort to start a wild goose chase. There were British documents on the "fighter" that listed speed and wing area, and pilots claimed encounters & kills with the aircraft, though it doesn't appear they were ever in service. Hence it's nickname the "propaganda fighter."
But I could be wrong.
Interestingly, there's an authentic Tony in restoration / duplication in progress:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/ki-61/640.html
http://community.webshots.com/album/235442219eKCadh
I don't have any relieable information on the He-113. It seems to have been a failed Heinkel design that was used primarily for propaganda purposes. The few (only?) prototypes that were built were moved around and repainted frequently in an effort to start a wild goose chase. There were British documents on the "fighter" that listed speed and wing area, and pilots claimed encounters & kills with the aircraft, though it doesn't appear they were ever in service. Hence it's nickname the "propaganda fighter."
But I could be wrong.
Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:38 am
The Kawasaki Ki-61 was an entirely indigenous design, powered by a troublesome copy of the DB 601 as previously mentioned. The shape of the aircraft bore quite a bit of resemblance to the Macchi C.202, with the long, elegant wings and underslung radiator, hence the Allied code name "Tony".
The "He 113" was Goebbel's creation; the number actually referred to the Heinkel He 100D, an outstanding design with a higher top speed and greater manouverability than the contemporary Bf 109E. However, the RLM decided to focus fighter production entirely on the Emil in order to have the most aircraft available in the shortest amount of time; this decision also simplified the supply chain, having only one type of aircraft to support. By the time this decision was reached, the German government had placed a general ban on export to other countries; however, Heinkel was still able to sell eight copies of the He 100D to the Soviet Union.
Japan was a major export customer for Heinkel, having purchased several four-engined He 116 transports, the Heinkel He 118V1 dive bomber prototype (the influence of which can be seen in the Yokosuka D4Y1 "Judy"), and at least a couple He 112A series fighters.
Lynn
The "He 113" was Goebbel's creation; the number actually referred to the Heinkel He 100D, an outstanding design with a higher top speed and greater manouverability than the contemporary Bf 109E. However, the RLM decided to focus fighter production entirely on the Emil in order to have the most aircraft available in the shortest amount of time; this decision also simplified the supply chain, having only one type of aircraft to support. By the time this decision was reached, the German government had placed a general ban on export to other countries; however, Heinkel was still able to sell eight copies of the He 100D to the Soviet Union.
Japan was a major export customer for Heinkel, having purchased several four-engined He 116 transports, the Heinkel He 118V1 dive bomber prototype (the influence of which can be seen in the Yokosuka D4Y1 "Judy"), and at least a couple He 112A series fighters.
Lynn
KI-61
Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:16 pm
The KI-61 is a verry sophisticated aircraft,we didn't realise how advanced it was until we started taking it apart.
I never thought the Japanese would have been capable of this sort of design and construction.
Aparently it was way over the heads of most of the ground crews that worked on them.
I never thought the Japanese would have been capable of this sort of design and construction.
Aparently it was way over the heads of most of the ground crews that worked on them.
Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:34 pm
the tony was a first class japanese original design. it has been unfairly judged as a rip off of the me 109 countless times. it's engine had it's quirks, but when fine tuned, & flown in capable hands it kicked ass, & was generally highly repected by allied pilots. jaaf fighter pilot kobayashi ( how ever you spell his name) had terrific success with the type, & his tony had 1 of the coolest paint / camo schemes of them all!!. the tony had it's greatest success records over japan itself in the later stages of the war. fortunately, it's hybrid bro the ki -100 was a real quality bird, & arrived to late & in to few numbers to have an impact on the allied aviation effort.
KI-61
Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:33 pm
Some units didn't have mecanical trouble with the aircraft,maintenance crew training i suspect,Most of these guys were rice farmers and pesants.
Others had high failure rates in the engine area.
There is nothing on the aircraft remotely like the 109 or any other german aircraft except maybee the motor,evry pipe and valve componant has a plaque what it connects to.
It was the only japanese aircraft that could dive as fast as the P-40.
Others had high failure rates in the engine area.
There is nothing on the aircraft remotely like the 109 or any other german aircraft except maybee the motor,evry pipe and valve componant has a plaque what it connects to.
It was the only japanese aircraft that could dive as fast as the P-40.
Gold
Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:30 am
The Tony was gold in the hands of the Japanese but they failed to exploit it. It was the equal to Allied second generation fighters.
More?
More?
Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:43 pm
Hi Tony guys
Yes one of my favourites and can hardly wait to see one flying - a couple of years perhaps.
Some points for the conversation perhaps.
The engine was much modified from the DB unit and I believe nothing is useable/ interchangeable - from one to the other -
There are probably up to 4 Ki61s being rebuilt at Wangarratta by Precision Aerospace in Victoria , Australia - two for prominant USA collectors, one for Murray and a fourth unidentified owner.
Here are two links to my webshots pages (There are two seperate sites and you look for the Ki61 page in the first link
http://community.webshots.com/user/setter125
and Murray Griffiths in the second
http://community.webshots.com/user/setter126007
I believe they are going to rebuild Japanese powerplants rather than modify DBs to fit ?
A Ki100 would be possible fairly easily as some of these were constructed by taking unused Ki61 Airframes and mounting the Radial engine on them . There is only one complete Ki100 extant at Hendon in the Milestones (Sic) of Flight building and very nice it is too. The Ki100 could easily use one of a few suitable USA or Russian powerplants if a Japanese engine could not be sourced as with the La9 and Fw190 rebuilds
Regards
John P
Just my thoughts - not gospel
Yes one of my favourites and can hardly wait to see one flying - a couple of years perhaps.
Some points for the conversation perhaps.
The engine was much modified from the DB unit and I believe nothing is useable/ interchangeable - from one to the other -
There are probably up to 4 Ki61s being rebuilt at Wangarratta by Precision Aerospace in Victoria , Australia - two for prominant USA collectors, one for Murray and a fourth unidentified owner.
Here are two links to my webshots pages (There are two seperate sites and you look for the Ki61 page in the first link
http://community.webshots.com/user/setter125
and Murray Griffiths in the second
http://community.webshots.com/user/setter126007
I believe they are going to rebuild Japanese powerplants rather than modify DBs to fit ?
A Ki100 would be possible fairly easily as some of these were constructed by taking unused Ki61 Airframes and mounting the Radial engine on them . There is only one complete Ki100 extant at Hendon in the Milestones (Sic) of Flight building and very nice it is too. The Ki100 could easily use one of a few suitable USA or Russian powerplants if a Japanese engine could not be sourced as with the La9 and Fw190 rebuilds
Regards
John P
Just my thoughts - not gospel
Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:44 pm
an interesting wrinkle to japanese warbird nicknames......... during ww 2 the u.s. military deemed japanese aircraft designations as to complicated ( & i agree too) hence they coined the nicknames we all now know & mostly use. now......... no offense to southern u.s. citizens but those nicknames were supposed to be southern style ("hillbilly" type names 
they, the u.s. govt used & initiated that term, to japanese planes, not me!!!!) hence such as zeke, myrt, dinah, jake, rufe, etc. as the war progressed, some where down the line the name philosophy went out to left field. "tony" is as hillbilly as a german name!! where did abdhul come from?? not alabama!! 
how about hap for the clipped wing zero?? when general hap arnold pitched a bitch at that nickname they put out his flames of anger & insult & changed the name to "hamp"!! by the way..... any actual bonifide hamps left on the planet?? 
they, the u.s. govt used & initiated that term, to japanese planes, not me!!!!) hence such as zeke, myrt, dinah, jake, rufe, etc. as the war progressed, some where down the line the name philosophy went out to left field. "tony" is as hillbilly as a german name!! where did abdhul come from?? not alabama!! how about hap for the clipped wing zero?? when general hap arnold pitched a bitch at that nickname they put out his flames of anger & insult & changed the name to "hamp"!! by the way..... any actual bonifide hamps left on the planet??
PNG National Museums Ki-61
Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:00 pm
Howdy all
John you forgot to mention the most important project, that of the PNG National Museum's Ki-61 # 640. This has allowed Precision to build the other new Ki-61s.
Lightning
John you forgot to mention the most important project, that of the PNG National Museum's Ki-61 # 640. This has allowed Precision to build the other new Ki-61s.
Lightning
Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:20 pm
Lightning
Quite right and of course this was the 4th vaugely reffered to aircraft being construced at Precision - don't want to say stuff about it I shouldn't in case it is a bit sensative.
John P
Quite right and of course this was the 4th vaugely reffered to aircraft being construced at Precision - don't want to say stuff about it I shouldn't in case it is a bit sensative.
John P
Thunderbolt
Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:36 pm
What came first the P-47 or the Japanese Thunderbolt.
The Raiden.
The Raiden.
Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:48 am
Mick
The P47 and earlier Lancer were a bit before the Raiden but not a lot
John P
The P47 and earlier Lancer were a bit before the Raiden but not a lot
John P
Re: The "Tony"
Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:11 pm
Any news as to the latest restoring going on with one of these things? Great looking machine.
