Warbird Information Exchange

my kid was surfing the tube today & stumbled across the originial 60's version of the movie flight of the phoenix with ja ja ja jimmy stewart. it got me thinking...... i heard a long time ago that the original movie was based on a true story. is this fact?? or another 1 for the manure pile?? none the less, the original flick is kick butt, the recent re-make was lame at best, yeah i know the opinion was covered on a thread some time back on the new version of the movie, i'm just asking if it is really based on a true story. i'd bet no, but it would be cool if i'm wrong!!!! thanks, tom

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I also heard that the original was based on a true story. But for the remake they changed so many things.... well you know Hollywood.

_________________
The conquest of space is worth the risk of life. - Gus Grissom

The 1965 movie "Flight of the Phoenix", was based on a novel by Elleston Trevor. Pure fiction I am afraid, but still a great story and movie (the originial).

I've been a big fan of the original since I was a kid. Wonder why they were shy about making the bad guys Arabs in that awful remake?

I've had a site bookmarked for a while that describes the accident that killed Paul Mantz during the filming. It's a page on the personal website of a man named David Steiner. Very nicely done.

http://stripe.colorado.edu/~steinerd/Phoenix.html

i heard mantz was schnockered when he crashed the phoenix.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Paul Mantz may have been under the influence, but the structural failure or the jury rigged aircraft is what caused his ultimate demise.
Sad ending to a brilliant career.
Jerry

schnockered was a bad term, sorry!! under the influence is more fitting!!! i heard 1 of the skids / landing gear caught the ground & the bird just cart wheeled on impact.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I don't know Tom..I would have to have been "snockered" to fly that thing.....Tom

From what 've read over the years, it was common for Mantz to have a little "smash" before a flight.
He even named his B-25 camera ships "Smashers"
Whether the skid hit before the crash or as a result of it, stills I've seen (some are in old Air Classics) clearly show the fus breaking BEFORE the cartwheel. Anyone know if there is a definitive biography on him (or Frank Tallman, or Art Scholl for that matter) out there?
Would also love to learn more detail on the construction of the Pheonix.
Tho I'm not as much of a fan of the new version, I do have to say that the opening flying to the Johnny Cash tune is great.

I've seen the actual movie footage of the crash and it happens very fast. The aft fuselage breaking off just behind the trailing edge of the wing. Stuntman Bobby Rose, riding behind Mantz in the cockpit, survived the crash. In 1967, Don Dwiggins wrote a Biography on Mantz titled "Hollywood Pilot: the biography of Paul Mantz". i got my copy from Ebay.

If you look closely at the film (it was on this past weekend) The "Phoenix" they put together at the crash site is diferent than the "Phoenix" the Mantz actually flew. The crash site "Pheonix" has big, squared off wing tips, similar to the C-82's wings. They work on it, and drag it to the take-off area.

The aircraft that actually flys, and that Mantz was killed in, has sharply tapered wings coming to a small, much more rounded tip. It looks something like a C-45 wing, but I'm not sure.

The third aircraft that protrayed the "Phoenix" after the crash was an North American O-47 that was modified to look like the "Phoenix". It's not too good, and they try to "hide" it by shooting it from a distance or through trees.
Blue skies,
Jerry

Actually, Paul Mantz named his "Cinerama" nose photo B25's "Bug Smasher" because of the amount of bugs smashed on to the expensive optical quality nose every take-off.

This is well chronicled in many places, including Scott Thompson's excellent "B-25 Mitchell in Civil Service" (available at his web site www.aerovintage.com). They used to tape paper over the "glass" nose until above insect height, when they would pull it off (probably quite a process in the air) prior to shooting through the nose.

As to whether "Bug Smasher" was a double entende, I will let Mr. Mantz' contemporaries relate.

You can find the film footage at www.britishpathe.com. Also, the accident report mentions that Mantz had been drinking!
As for the name "Smasher", weren't the B-25s called "Bug Smashers" due to the number of squashed insects on the cinegraphic nose?

T J

The flying Phoenix was a hand made wooden fuse with Beech 18 outer wings attached and a ???? tail.....

A totaly different beast than the movie prop.

Someone correct me if I am wrong

I just watched the footage; the plane makes a low approach and the landing gear touches the sand, but the skids don't seem to dig in much - the wheels kick up a little puff of sand, the plane bounces a couple feet in the air and settles gently down on the skids again as it starts to go end over end. If you look at the footage and concentrate on the landing gear rather than the break in the fuselage, it doesn't look like that hard a landing. However, the tail monocoque starts pulling itself away from the center section - as if it were unzipping itself from the top down - immediately as the wheels hit the sand. I wonder if the fuselage-to-tail joint had been strengthened, this might not have happened; or if he hadn't touched the ground, would it have broken up afterwords when he went to land at the airport?

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Think the Phoenix had Beech outer wings but a t-6 or BT13 tailcone....

Bug Smasher was the nickname of the C-45 - never heard it applied to a B-25 before but i guess with that glazing it would be appropriate!

TT

_________________
Life's a Beech and an Armed T-6