Warbird Information Exchange

Some of it is economics -- when prices of Avgas spiked, so did the cost of running a show. My understanding (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that owners charge x dollars for an airshow appearance and it was considered traditional that not only would the organizer pay the appearance fee, but would also "top off the tanks" before they departed the show, which, obviously, could be quite a boost to an owner of a larger aircraft such as a B-17. When show organizers could no longer afford the Avgas, they could no longer draw the planes that bring the crowds out. It's a self-destructive spiral.

Frederick, Maryland held several airshows from 1994 to 2003. At their height, they had a near-unprecedented five B-17s at a single show. By the time the show faltered, they couldn't event get one, and it became a more of a re-enactor and military vehicle show. Their last hurrah was a TBM reunion in honor of the TBM that was assigned to their Stars & Stripes Wing....which ended up going to the National Capital Squadron after wing folded. They managed to draw 7 TBMs -- which was quite an accomplishment.

Where Frederick failed was when the local jurisdiction pulled their support. They were doing it gratis for the CAF Squadron and then decided that they had to charge the CAF for the officers directing traffic, among other things. The CAF couldn't foot the bill, so the show folded, and without the show to support their operations, the wing folded. So, in addition to economics, having a cooperative local government that understands the importance and benefit of these shows is crucial.

Finally, there just seems to be a lack of wonder at the concept of flight with many of the young population. Maybe it's because everyone is so "plugged in" than seeing something that is "old fashioned" or doesn't come as an app just isn't appealing. The survival of our peculiar little hobby is dependent on finding enough new blood to learn about and preserve these machines from an increasingly aging community. I think someone told me the average age of a CAF member is now in the 70s.

Personally, I like the smaller shows, like the Collings Foundation tour stops. They tend to be more intimate, you can get "up close and personal" with the aircraft, chat with the people who fly them. Maybe to rebuild the big airshows, we as a community need to go back to the grass-roots type of shows and to instill that sense of wonder in our youth once again.

After years of hitting Dayton repeatedly, I began to feel like I'd seen it all. Haven't of course, but I'm getting there. I did become tired of the gargantuan crowds, the long walks or bus rides, the sweltering heat and sunburns (all wings of shade are claimed!), and generally the exhaustion of the whole ordeal. I am getting older! And of course I hate the PA's and announcers too! Only first-timers are going to appreciate that; non-aviation types. Not us advanced mavens! So, what I do now is dial it way back: My favorite thing is the tail-dragger show at Waynesville, where nary a fence holds me back, and no VIP tents. I can park my car about a 2 minute walk from the flight-line. There are cool things flying in, nothing too special but enough to scratch that itch. And I can ride a Stearman cheap. I am way overdue for a BIG airshow though! My last big thing was Gathering of Mustangs at Rickenbacker. It tired me out! In my 20's nothing would stop me, in my 50's everything stops me! Not being able to bring in my own water somewhere was kind of a bummer, not sure where that was...

If you get a chance, look at the topic " great New England air show." Both threads are starting to ring simular to problems of sponsorship and canceling aircraft

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

As a teenager growing up in Northern New Jersey, I always enjoyed the Sussex County Airshow (no longer held). Those shows stayed focused on aviation and if you got there early, you could interact with the crews and get some nice pictures of the planes. Old Rhinebeck was also a lot of fun.

Today I get tired of the airshow crowds, non-aviation related side-shows, carnival atmosphere, inability to get a decent picture of an aircraft sitting on the ground without 10 people sitting around it or some other obstacle like a muscle car parked beside it.

Maybe I'm getting old but I'd rather go to an air conditioned museum, take my time and look at the displays and planes in a quiet setting. I don't need to see the planes flying anymore. Been there, done that...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

Last air show I attened was a couple years ago. It must have been 90 degrees but on the ramps it seemed like a 100 with no shade. Even I couldn't enjoy it any longer and left after the warbirds went up. I think me and the kids watched a little from the air conditioning truck before we left. All aircraft interest me but how many times can I watch the blue Angels?

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

The static area can drive you nuts. Like many of you, I always make a point to hit the static planes with my camera immediately before the crowds start to camp out and block the view. Only then do I bother looking around for anything else.I think we're all like that. After a while, once you've seen enough airshows, it simply starts to get to the point where you wonder if all the trouble with getting there, parking, the crowds, the noise, and all the 'go stand over there while mommy takes a picture of you with the airplane' types (or people who use the planes as their personal umbrella from the sun). Personally, I'm at the point where a show has to have something impressive I haven't seen before to get me to go.You and me both, brother! Once I saw the Thunderbirds with their F-16s a couple of times and the Blue Angels with the F-18s (I saw each with T-38s and A-4s when I was little), there wasn't much draw for me after that. In fact, I've left the McChord AFB airshow each time I've gone before the main act spools up their engines, just to beat the crowds out of the 2 exits to the field (seriously, it can take hours to get out of there). The only time I ever stayed was the time my re-enacting group had WW2 vehicles on the field all weekend, so we hung around until everyone was gone anyway.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I don't imagine this post will be popular, but I'd say the problem isn't the shows, it's the airplanes. The airplanes are not there. Because too high of a proportion of the airworthy preserved operational WWII types are never flown, only rarely and locally flown, or appear only unannounced at small events so you can't plan in advance on seeing them. In addition, ownership of WWII fighters and bombers today is more concentrated with a few large collectors, whose limited aircrew and other resources prevent most of them from being active most of the time. Result: Relative to 30 years ago, nominally there are more WWII fighters and bombers "airworthy" in the U.S. But in reality, many fewer warbirds than 30 years ago will fly any distance to shows.

August

I seem to be in the minority on this one. Seeing these magnificent aircraft in a museum is great and I take the opportunity whenever I can. But to hear them run, see them fly, experience the reason they were made, that is the true warbird experience. I would love to see them on an open ramp with no one around but I am also excited by the fact that those same people are there. With all of the other activities available today it's nice to know the shows are still supported and populated with spectators. Many of us would never see the selection, variety or number of aircraft like these in one place without going to a show. Now, this is said with my fortunate luck of being 2 hours from Oshkosh so I understand I have a great show every year but there are smaller ones around I go to as well.

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Always looking for P-51D parts.

I'm just happy I got in a bunch of shows in the 80's when things wuz cheap! Proud of having seen the Bob Hoover routine. Now I'm holding out for a nearby appearance of the Me-262. But I must confess, although it's NOT the same as being there, that these HD youtube clips are pretty good--in many cases it's enough! If not for this new techno revolution, I'd have no recourse but to brave the crowds again. I'm also happy I've seen many a plane that is not flying anymore, such as the A-7. What a flamin' war that thing pretended to lay down! My little local airport is not having shows anymore, and is no longer an airport either! blasphemy. Lunken doesn't seem to be doing it up anymore either. Just the annual appearances of B-17's giving rides over a weekend. I loved the A-10 demo I saw at Lunken where it never left the airport boundaries. Good times. Maybe I'll reprise my old game and go to a biggie this year, just because this thread is shaming me into it. Being a cheapo I parked my car on the outskirts of Dayton and watched it from afar, one year. Waxed my car. Rode my bike closer. I think I made a boo-boo though when i had to endure 2 B-1's and the MV-22 from over a mile away. Firsts, both! The Osprey moves so weird, it just looks wrong....

I'm really looking forward to Fagen Fighters' airshow which is coming up on June 20th - they really know how to do it right. The museum, located at the Granite Falls, MN airport, is situated in a serene setting - wide-open, farm fields all around, with nothing to ruin the backdrop of these vintage aircraft (the way Geneseo has been described). The atmosphere is also very relaxed/low-key, and with up-close access to the aircraft, combined with a lot of flying. The airport itself has essentially become Fagen Fighters' personal airfield, as the vast majority of the airport infrastructure is the multitude of Fagen Fighters hangars and buildings. For the airshow this June, in addition to the Fagen's P-38 "Ruff Stuff", P-40E, P-40K, two P-51D's, "Sweet Revenge" & "Twilight Tear", B-25 "Paper Doll", and their recently purchased FM-2 Wildcat, which will all be flying, also confirmed so-far, and can be expected to be seen flying, is the EAA's B-17 "Aluminum Overcast", the CAF AZ Wing's B-25 "Maid in the Shade", C&P Aviation's B-25 "Lady Luck", a PV-2 Harpoon, the P-51 Mustangs "Old Crow", "Petie 2nd", and the recently completed "Sierra Sue II", the Legacy Flight Museum's P-63 Kingcobra, the Texas Flying Legends' FM-2 Wildcat, FG-1D Corsair, and A6M2 Zero, and the CAF Sioux Falls Wing Stinson L-5. There will also be tons of trainers of all types (more than a dozen Texans, BT-13, PT-19, PT-22, PT-26), which includes the AeroShell Aerobatic Team which will be performing as well. Some others have yet to be confirmed. I suspect there will also be ground-based WWII reenactments going on as well. This all in a small, relaxed, out in the country-type setting, but with a warbird line-up that the biggest airshow venues would desire to have.

Although last year they didn't have an airshow, per-say, Fagen Fighters did hold a D-Day commemoration event, which was free to all, and despite being free, they flew every one of their warbirds, multiple times, continuously throughout the day (major $$ being spent on fuel), as well as hosting some visitors which also flew throughout the day. These were some of the photos I took at that event last summer (this was prior to the Museum's B-25 "Paper Doll" arriving): viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53230

Very often, August, the truth is not popular

I feel that to a great extent these days, vintage aircraft are collected by wealthy individuals, much the same way that art is.
A pleasing object, often of incredible craftsmanship, that usually increases in value.
I know of a fellow who collects hot rods this way. He even bought the original T.V. Batmobile from a Barret Jackson auction.
A friend was in his garage and I have seen photos. This car basically never sees the light of day, certainly is never driven.
I would have loved to see Seafire XV PR503. It was invited to the 40th anniversary CWH show (they used to own her). Unequivocal no.
I don't think she has flown since her debut at Osh.
Obviously people can do as they wish with their property. I guess we just have to be grateful for the ones we do get to see.

That Fagen show sounds like it will be fantastic!

Andy

I have had the same feeling in the past of the same ole same ole at some of the airshows...the repeat performers year after year....don't get me wrong, it's not all that bad...I never ever got tired of watching Mr Hoover do his thang in the Shrike, or P-51....but sometimes ya just gotta spike the old watermelon. Last year with the sequester of military aircraft at air shows really was a banner year for Our PV-2 Attu Warrior, as she went to I think 18 airshows...almost coast to coast and Seattle to Houston....She got out to a few airshows she had never been to before, and I think Dave said she clocked almost 80 flight hours last year....

There are a few smaller airshows that I have not attended before that seem like they just might be a whole lot more laid back and different than some of the stiffer airshows. We are looking forward to taking the Harpoon to Fagan's event in Mn., and the July 11th event in Tarkio, Mo....Just talking with the promoters there, it sounds like a lot of fun for the crowd, and the crews that are there....Also have not confirmed Whiteman AFB, and possibly Cameron, Mo yet, but they seem to be promising fun events as well. I think I like the smaller shows better than the larger ones...Topeka, Ks was a blast two years ago...that would be a fun one to do again!

G