Warbird Information Exchange

I received a call from a pilot that has purchased an O-2 and needs a checkout. He also needs to add his multi-engine centerline thrust rating. What all is involved with adding that to his certificate?
Thanks

Please check your PMs

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Just out of curiosity, what is the drill for recognizing and dealing with loss of the aft engine on take off?

Your airspeed is going to deteriorate, your manifold pressure and fuel flow gauges wont be married up with the front engine.

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.

There no longer is a Multi license that allows centerline thrust only. So if he does not have a Multi engine license already, then he will have to get it in a conventional twin with a VMC. If he already has a Multi license that is not CLT restricted, then he is already set to go.

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

And you will either be holding your own or slowly going down if you have any sort of load in the airplane.

Do O-2s have the full compliment of gear doors? I am specifically thinking about the gear doors for the main gear. When those open up for retraction they are a metric ton of drag and are very good at briefly killing any single engine climb you might have had.

Yes unless they have specifically been removed, all of the ones I have ever seen have the doors.

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

All very interesting, thank you for the replies. The earlier mention of a "Centerline Thrust" rating had me thinking about the differences between a centerline and conventional twin. I suppose on a 336/337/O-2 you would need to watch the engine instruments a bit closer on take off because there wouldn't be any tactile feedback (i.e., asymmetric thrust) if an engine was lost, although the airspeed decay from a 50% power loss might be quite noticeable!

It's always good to learn something about a specific type from people with experience. Thanks again.

I cracked a cylinder on the front engine on takeoff one hot day. Was high enough on the cylinder that no oil came out, but takeoff was about 20% longer than I expected. Did not "feel" any difference otherwise down the runway. Used about the same rudder inputs. My plane was know as a bit of a "pig" being slower than other planes in the squadron while on active duty in a Viet Nam, so it was never blazing fast in the air or on climb out.

Initially chalked it up to density altitude and was able to climb out. MP, RPM Fuel flow and other gauges Ok. Was down about 7kias from my normal. Played with throttles to see if an engine was acting up, but could not determine which was the problem.
Landed and all instruments seemed OK.
Did a mag check and lost 500rpm on front engine. Aha! Mag problem!

Nope mags checked out.
Kept looking and found # 5 had cracked.
New cylinder and everything back to normal.

For what it is worth I took my multi check flight in the O2, and hold a multi rating with CLT limitation.
I flew at times with bombs and rockets on the wings. An engine out especially on takeoff would have been a disaster. My instructor said not to worry which one was out, just to realize you had an engine issue, firewall both throttles unless you had room to put it down on the runway, if not fly it like the insurance company owned it straight ahead to the crash site.

As to the gear doors, if you had an engine problem, you are better off landing gear up rather than stalling/losing lots of altitude from the drag.
On takeoff keep the gear down as the drag is twice that of extended gear alone.

I've flown a T210N for the company I work for which is almost exactly the same as a T210M except Cessna deleted the rear doors due to he mechanical issues they created and performance deterioration during the cycle.

But holy crap it's amazing how much drag that gear system creates when the gear goes from being pointed straight down to the rearward retraction portion. I believe the system between all of the Cessna singles and the 337 are nearly identical except for maybe the final position within the fuselage in the case of the 337.

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

Looking at the performance charts, with the gear doors open, and one engine shut down/prop feathered, the best that you could hope for is a -240 ft/min rate of climb. Notice that it indicates a negative rate of climb.
Also, with an engine loss on take-off, you're supposed to jettison all external ordnance, too much drag.

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.

Man, I thought our C-123 was bad when the book said you "may" see a 100fpm climb on one engine and that is at the weight we fly it to air shows.

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

Which is considered worse? Losing the front or rear engine upon take-off and the same question applies to the 0-2 in flight as well

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

I have played with both normally aspirated and turbo 337s. Both exhibited slightly less awful single engine performance with the rear engine running and the front engine failed. Where these in any way close to flight test perfection and equal conditions? No, just an observation having flown both types.

If memory serves, the normally aspirated version was headed downhill in summer at sea level with essentially a full load of fuel and two people. As a demonstration of why you don't want to do it, we retracted the gear. As soon as the rear doors opened the speed fell and the descent rate increased until the gear was up and all doors closed when the descent rate decreased but we were still headed downhill at blue line.

The turbo one was holding, not climbing but not losing either, under similar conditions.
In the turbo when we were holding altitude we retracted the gear and watched the airspeed drop and the the aircraft lose altitude while the gear was in motion. Once the gear was up we were barely squeezing out a climb at blue line.

With the front engine running and the rear engine failed we were headed downhill in both. Just a slightly lower descent rate in the turbo.

Curious if that is essentially the same experience in an O2?

Flying off the rear engine will always be more efficient, no matter what the plane is, due to the better aerodynamics associated with the pusher configuration.

_________________
Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost