More questions than answers ...

[Larry Kraus]

Mark,I once had the hydraulic line at the top of the right landing gear strut fail on brake application on the rollout during a loaded landing at Porterville in B-17 Tanker 65.All of the hydraulic fluid went overboard and there's no backup for the brakes on the B-17s that I've flown.So,I had no brakes at all.I managed to do a more or less controlled ground loop at the end of the runway to the taxiway using the throttles.It wasn't pretty,but it worked.

So far,so good.The real trick was trying to stop on the narrow taxiway.Even with the tail wheel locked and no wind,the airplane wanted to drift off the taxiway when I shut the engines down.I was only moving about 5 miles per hour,so full rudder and aileron had zero effect.I had to quickly fire up a couple of engines while my co-pilot found a wheel chock in the airplane and managed to toss through the front entrance hatch to under the left main wheel.

It's a really helpless feeling moving along with zero control.You can't even retract the gear if you are headed for something expensive or about to go over a cliff.Someone once told me that all friction in the wheel bearings disappears when you step on the brakes and there's nobody home.I think that he might have been fight.At the time,I thought about a story of a Liberian oil tanker that ran over a sailboat and it took about 5 miles before they could stop.I can believe it.

This is actually a picture from the nose hatch of T68 at Alamogordo in 1980, but it gives the idea of tossing a chock under the left main wheel stopping T65 with no brakes



Here's a shot of T65 at the Porterville Tanker Base in 1982 at about the time of the hydraulic line failure.

Last edited by Larry Kraus on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[4RG.I.'S]

I wonder if the B-17 with the crunched tail was being pushed by a tug using MLG tug struts? Or perhaps blown into the other ship by the wind?

Ah yes indeed!! by looking at the photos again this explanation does sound more logical.

Thx

I think maybe not.
1. look at the tailwheel of 229850, not swiveled to the rear as it would be were it pushed rearward by a tug (it is a full swivel wheel, correct?), or to the side if it were blown sideways by the wind.
2. The damage shows 229850's rudder is pushed to the ships left, showing movement from it's right, not rear.
The shredded aluminum from, and damage to the right horizontal of 229850 show the prop was turning on the other bird.
4. The photo caption states "taxi accident", not storm damage or ground personnel...
I think more possible could be a brake failure of the B-17 preventing it from stopping or turning in time.

[Larry Kraus]

This looks a bit like your B-17 outside the hangar picture.This was a weight and balance procedure with the R4D-8 that I flew on the 1981 Alaska Fish Haul at Sequioa Field in about May 1981.Weighing a DC-3 isn't easy.There are a couple of posts that stick out from the side of the fuselage to support a carpenter's level and you need to get into the position in this picture.Some fun! One of these days I'll post the pictures from my Fish Haul experience.Accent on experience....

[67N20]

According to Baugher's site:

The '17 with the tail damage:
42-29850 Boeing B-17F of the 351st BG was returned to the US 7-25-1944

The '17 that apparently lost the right gear:
42-37721 Douglas B-17G of 381st BG, 534th Sqdn was salvaged 6-2-1945

[Pogo]

Old timey straight wing B-25? Now there's an early bird!

[Mark Allen M]

Something most of us (me anyway) omit from thought when we see movies and such of aircraft shooting guns is the amount of 'stuff' that falls away once the bullets start spraying around. So what are those clips for? Holding the string of bullets together? Never thought about seeing those ejected as well as bullet casings. Hmm!!!

[Mark Allen M]

What are the "prop socks" role? ...


Maintenance and support personnel of the 555th Bomb Squadron, 386th Bomb Group with the Martin B-26 Marauder "Loretta Young" in England, 1943-1944 (Pima A&S Archives)


Martin B-26 Marauder "Secksma Sheen" 558th Bomb Squadron, 387th Bomb Group (Pima A&S Archives)
BTW Nicely imaginative name

[Matt Gunsch]

Something most of us (me anyway) omit from thought when we see movies and such of aircraft shooting guns is the amount of 'stuff' that falls away once the bullets start spraying around. So what are those clips for? Holding the string of bullets together? Never thought about seeing those ejected as well as bullet casings. Hmm!!!

That is exactly what they are for, they look the same for the .30 caliber machine gun belts, only smaller. I have a couple of ammo cans full of belted 30-06 and a partial can of .50 that I am very slowly using up, just pull a cartridge from the links as needed.
some planes collected the links and brass in a separate box to be emptied after landing.

[Randy Haskin]

Something most of us (me anyway) omit from thought when we see movies and such of aircraft shooting guns is the amount of 'stuff' that falls away once the bullets start spraying around. So what are those clips for? Holding the string of bullets together? Never thought about seeing those ejected as well as bullet casings. Hmm!!!

FWIW, current jets re-capture their spent brass after the rounds are shot.

[Cvairwerks]

What is all this stuff? I believe this is a P-63.

Flight test aircraft. He's working on the data system.

[Duggy009]

What is all this stuff? I believe this is a P-63.

"Utilization at Glenn: The military provided Lewis with a Bell P–63A King Cobra in October 1943 to complement the lab's extensive efforts to improve the Allison V–1710 engine. Researchers were able to improve the efficiency, capacity and pressure ratio of the engine’s supercharger. They found that improved cooling significantly reduced engine knock in the fuel. Once the researchers were satisfied with their improvements, the new supercharger and cooling components were installed on the P–63A. The Flight Research Division first established the aircraft’s normal flight performance parameters such as speed at various altitudes, rate of climb, and peak altitude. Ensuing flights established the performance parameters of the new configuration in order to determine the improved performance. The program increased V–1710’s horsepower from 1650 to 2250. The aircraft was returned to the military in June 1945."

[pmahaffey]

This is just a guess but judging from the angle of the tarmac and how the planes collided a good guess would be that the planes were lined up for take off and the parking brake released while the crews attention was focused on something inside the aircraft. I had this exact thing happen to me once on "Chuckie" while we were parked in the run up area. We caught it right away but still moved forward a few feet before I could react and set the brakes. Fortunately we were all alone out there. If this had happened during an engine run up the plane would have darted forward pretty quickly.

It's interesting to note the hook and cable attached to the left gear and running back to the truck in the background. Looks like they are about to clean up this mess.

[Scooby]

The compass rose is for calibrating the whisky compass. Line the plane up on the cardinal headings 360 090 180 270 and note the difference on the whisky compass, turn the compass compensator screws to get it as close to the rose setting as possible, then align plane with the other headings and write down the compass readings. under the compass is a placard that says for 360 steer 002, 090 steer 093 and so on....
The P-63 with all the electronics could be a Pinball plane

Correct, although you only do full adjustments on the first two perpendicular headings, all the rest are half-error adjustments.

Some aricraft are running, others are not, all depending on what the manufacturer determines.

I've swung Hornets, Hercs, Twin Otters, Hueys, Griffons, Kiowas, Tutors, and Trackers while serving in the Canadian Airforce.

[Scooby]

Mark,I once had the hydraulic line at the right landing gear strut fail on brake application on the rollout during a loaded landing at Porterville in B-17 Tanker 65.All of the hydraulic fluid went overboard and there's no backup for the brakes on the B-17s that I've flown.So,I had no brakes at all.I managed to do a more or less controlled ground loop at the end of the runway to the taxiway using the throttles.It wasn't pretty,but it worked.

So far,so good.The real trick was trying to stop on the narrow taxiway.Even with the tail wheel locked and no wind,the airplane wanted to drift off the taxiway when I shut the engines down.I was only moving about 5 miles per hour,so full rudder and aileron had zero effect.I had to quickly fire up a couple of engines while my co-pilot found a wheel chock in the airplane and managed to toss through the front entrance hatch to under the left main wheel.

It's a really helpless feeling moving along with zero control.You can't even retract the gear if you are headed for something expensive or about to go over a cliff.Someone once told me that all friction in the wheel bearings disappears when you step on the brakes and there's nobody home.I think that he might have been fight.At the time,I thought about a story of a Liberian oil tanker that ran over a sailboat and it took about 5 miles before they could stop.I can believe it.

Brake failure is the more likely cause and it is apparent engines were running. Obviously it was a taxi incident as the picture states it was.

[Scooby]

What are the "prop socks" role? ...

They keep ice off the blades and are still used to this day.