Buchon versus Bf 109 Wings

[John Dupre]

I have read a fair amount about the Hispano Buchon version of the Messerschmitt Bf 109. I think the last version of the Buchon the HA 1112 had wings strengthened and modified for external stores in ways the Bf 109 wings were not. So when a restorer creates a new Bf 109 from a Buchon what to they do with the wings? Do they remove the extra structure and return the wings to a more original Messerschmitt style or do the leave them alone?

[mike furline]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I don't recall ever seeing anything "large" carried under the wing. Just these rockets/hard points. I would guess the removal of the wing fence and gun barrel shroud would be accomplished as well. Perhaps this style wing hasn't been used for a restoration as of yet?

[JohnB]

I can't imagine a restorer removing structure from a wing just to make unseen areas more "original".

l

[bdk]

Some versions of the 109 had underwing gun pods. Perhaps other equipment used the same hardpoints?

[Jesse C.]

The only reason I could see for removal of additional hard points would be weight. But, most restorations are pampered show ponies and they will not be put through the rigors of combat, thus, the weight would not matter.

Plus honestly, how many folks attending an airshow or museum would even notice this feature?

[Bradburger]

I seem to recall that the Buchon had an extra wing spar to add strength for the 20mm wing mounted cannons.

I think there were some pictures taken during the restoration of the Yagen 109G project that showed the double spar Buchon wings that were used on the project.

Cheers

Paul

[redvanner]

I seem to recall that the Buchon had an extra wing spar to add strength for the 20mm wing mounted cannons.

I think there were some pictures taken during the restoration of the Yagen 109G project that showed the double spar Buchon wings that were used on the project.

Cheers

Paul

Paul, AFAIK it was not done to add strength. To allow the quite large Hispano-Suiza cannon to fit into the wing, they had to cut a big hole into the spar, so the additional one was neccessary to take the load. Regarding the fences, they were installed because firing the cannons could create turbulences influencing the airflöw above the wing (and to prevent interaction with the slats).
You are right, there were those pics, and the wings were not altered internally (nor were those of the 3 Buchon based G´s of Airbus / EADS / Messerschmitt Foundation).

Michael

[Bradburger]

Paul, AFAIK it was not done to add strength. To allow the quite large Hispano-Suiza cannon to fit into the wing, they had to cut a big hole into the spar, so the additional one was neccessary to take the load. Regarding the fences, they were installed because firing the cannons could create turbulences influencing the airflöw above the wing (and to prevent interaction with the slats).
You are right, there were those pics, and the wings were not altered internally (nor were those of the 3 Buchon based G´s of Airbus / EADS / Messerschmitt Foundation).

Michael

Thanks for the clarification Michael.

I read that too about the reason for the wing fences fitted to the Buchon.

I guess you could rebuild Buchon wings to 109G specifications if you so desired for a potential BF109G project, but all at an extra expense!

Cheers

Paul

[JimH]

At that level of restoration a restored DB is going to be well north of 500K, the wings will be of little consequence to the overall restoration. If you look at Crazy Horse or any other Cavalier Mustang restoration you wouldn't know from outward appearances that the wings had any modifications. The same goes for B-17s that were modified for fire bombing...there are small mods that, unless you are intimately familiar with the airframe you'd never know otherwise.


Jim

[redvanner]

If the wing fence and the hardpoints are removed, you can tell a Buchon wing from an original Bf 109 G wing (from the outside) only by several rows of additional rivets. That´s it. If the Buchon wing is any stronger than an original G one, I have no idea. Depends on if the second spar only restored the original strength weakened for use of the Hispano-Suiza HS 404 20 mm cannon, or if they added some (might be, due to the (Oerlikon) rockets fixed to the hardpoints).


Michael

P.S.: A link to the relevant pic on MeierMotors homepage. Please follow the link to see the pic.

http://www.meiermotors.com/images/pictu ... 9-0225.jpg

[JimH]

Had a good conversation with a NW Warbird restorer today...he said there is a significant lack of strength between the Buchon and the original ME wings. As noted there was a good chunk of spar removed for the cannon. At this point in the game I'm sure most restorations will be receiving new spars anyway...but that is just my speculation.

jim