Ball Turret Position Indicator - Location?

[2banaviator]

I've just obtained a Ball Turret Position Indicator (Sperti PN 11585), which I understand was used in versions of the B-24 that had ball turrets (and perhaps other a/c such as B-17s), to display with my K-4 Ball Turret Gun Sight. I'm trying to determine if this indicator was installed in the turret itself (unlikely, as it seems the gunner would likely know which way he is pointed by other visual cues) or in the fuselage, and if the latter, where? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

A photo of an identical indicator is shown here:

[Todd Hackbarth]

This position indicator was located inside the turret below and slightly to the left of the gunner's right heel.
Believe it or not, it was possible for the gunner to not know what direction he was facing in relation to the aircraft. His only view outside was through the round window between his legs and quite often he could not see any part of his own plane. I have had veterans tell me they could often tell their heading in relation to the aircraft because the noise in their upwind ear (facing the front of the plane) was louder that in their downwind one.

[JimH]

This gave me a chuckle...we had a high time retired Continental Airline Check Airman flying with us for awhile that told our mechanic that the #3 Cowling was on the wrong engine...somebody quipped, "yeah, where does the #9 cowling go?"...he also asked how often we did an annual. Ahhh...airline pilots.



Jim

[wendovertom]

great shot Jim!

Tom P.

[2banaviator]

Bingo! You win the prize, Todd.
I've just confirmed its location in the Aircrewman Gunnery Manual (US Navy edition dated July 1944, Powered Turret section, page T-115).

Now that I have a K-4 gun sight and the turret position indicator, I only have a few more bits to go until I can construct my own ball turret.
Won't my wife be pleased.

[ErrolC]

The Wirribee B-24 team have a ball turret on a stand, a striking exhibit!

Liberator ball turret by Errol Cavit, on Flickr

[wendovertom]

Pretty cool! There has got to be more than just the Wendover museum who would want a ball turret display like the one the Wirribee team has! If I could band together with a few folks and get one built. . . .

Tom P.

[2banaviator]

Note that the Wirribee turret has the ammunition cans mounted on the hanger assembly. In earlier versions, the ammo cans were located inside of the ball in front of the gunner (per the aforementioned manual).

And here is an interesting warning from the same manual about entering the turret:
Getting In
...You will have to be careful -- men have been injured and even killed because they did not know the right way to get in, or were careless about it. The turret ball is heavy and yet delicately balanced; unless it is locked in place, it may swivel and break a man's leg or snap him almost in two as he attempts to enter.

I hereby rescind my earlier-stated goal to build one....

[Taigh Ramey]

Here is a shot of the inside of an original unrestored ball turret. On the right side of the circular glass you can see the ball turret clock and its flex shaft just behind the right gun charging handle.


Caution thread hijack and shameless plug following:

Come on out for Bomber Camp next June and you can get the training and try the powered up ball turret in flight in either the B-17 or the B-24. You get to do a lot of other cool things at camp too like shoot WWII 50 cal guns in the waist and drop bombs (dummy's of course) with the Norden Bombsight. A great three days of fun. It's also the ultimate christmas gift idea.



Nothing like watching the bombs drop from the ball turret!







Shameless plug over...