Current Status of THE LIBERY BELLE B-17 a B-29 Question

[Wyvernfan]

An interesting build that I'd love to see happen is the PoF B50. It would be epic to see a B50 fly.

Will

Seconded!


Rob

[Speedy]

An interesting build that I'd love to see happen is the PoF B50. It would be epic to see a B50 fly.

Will

Seconded!


Rob

What exactly would that take? I've seen the fuselage section sitting in the back lot at PoF a few times, but like a lot of the things in the back lot it is pretty ratty and incomplete. What does the Museum 'have' of it, and what would they need to accomplish getting that airborne? I ask that given their drive to get Picadilly Lilly airborne that has taken a couple decades, and that was with a complete, intact airframe.

[Chuck Giese]

B-17E 41-2595 Desert Rat
B-17G 44-85790 Lacy Lady
B-17G 44-83790 Labrador B-17
B-17G 44-85734 Liberty Belle
B-17C project
B-17F 42-3455 Lucky 13
B-17G 44-85813 Champagne Lady
B-17G 44-83684 Piccadilly Lily
Evergreen B-17.

Jim

My, my, someone has been paying attention.

I added B17G 44-83790 (Labrador / Dyke Lake) to the list also. Parts are being fabricated at the same time as they are being made for Liberty Belle, but currently they go on the shelf. We'll assemble both bomb bay structures at the same time, and start building up the second forward fuselage then.

That's a pretty complete list of the restorations to fly.

Should see Evergreen fly at least once in 2017, I hope.

Chuck

[bdk]

What exactly would that take? I've seen the fuselage section sitting in the back lot at PoF a few times, but like a lot of the things in the back lot it is pretty ratty and incomplete. What does the Museum 'have' of it, and what would they need to accomplish getting that airborne? I ask that given their drive to get Picadilly Lilly airborne that has taken a couple decades, and that was with a complete, intact airframe.

The fuselage is there and mostly complete. Some years ago the volunteers got many of the systems operational.

When the aircraft was owned by the USAF it was last mounted on a trailer and the spar was cut through so guests could walk from front to back, through the spar area. It has insufficient strength to support itself if wings were attached.

When the KC-97 was scrapped, POF obtained the wings and some other parts with the hope to eventually display a complete aircraft. I don't think there was ever a plan or intention of the aircraft being restored to airworthy.

[Speedy]

What exactly would that take? I've seen the fuselage section sitting in the back lot at PoF a few times, but like a lot of the things in the back lot it is pretty ratty and incomplete. What does the Museum 'have' of it, and what would they need to accomplish getting that airborne? I ask that given their drive to get Picadilly Lilly airborne that has taken a couple decades, and that was with a complete, intact airframe.

The fuselage is there and mostly complete. Some years ago the volunteers got many of the systems operational.

When the aircraft was owned by the USAF it was last mounted on a trailer and the spar was cut through so guests could walk from front to back, through the spar area. It has insufficient strength to support itself if wings were attached.

When the KC-97 was scrapped, POF obtained the wings and some other parts with the hope to eventually display a complete aircraft. I don't think there was ever a plan or intention of the aircraft being restored to airworthy.

I figured there was something with the spar that was a huge stumbling block. Thanks.

[JimH]

B-17E 41-2595 Desert Rat
B-17G 44-85790 Lacy Lady
B-17G 44-83790 Labrador B-17
B-17G 44-85734 Liberty Belle
B-17C project
B-17F 42-3455 Lucky 13
B-17G 44-85813 Champagne Lady
B-17G 44-83684 Piccadilly Lily
Evergreen B-17.

Jim

My, my, someone has been paying attention.


as much as I love fighters, the B-17 will always be #1...there is something indescribable about flying this machine.

The Evergreen B-17 still lacks carbs, a test run, gear swings, and a bombay door

Jim

[JohnB]

I wonder it the recently discussed here SB-17 in Greenland still exists or could yield parts.

As far as B-24s go....Has anyone asked the Indians since they seem to have flown them last are are the source for the Cosford, Pima, and Collings (and perhaps another) examples. Any chance there could be any there in scrapyards?

[Mick G]

This whole thread makes me wonder if Kee Bird might eventually be recovered and restored.

[maxum96]

This whole thread makes me wonder if Kee Bird might eventually be recovered and restored.

Not enough left to restore unless you have a donor fuselage and more. What's left is not worth the gigantic expense and hassle to get it back to civilization. There are other complete candidates for restoration available in the U.S.. The Danish government reportedly will not allow anyone in to recover the remains due to the mess left by Darryl Greenameyer and his group. And lastly, why restore a third B-29 to flight worthy? Most of the public can't tell a B-25, B-17, B-24 or a B-29 apart (This is the same line i'd use for arguing with why restoring a B-50 doesn't make sense, although I'd love to see one fly). And there are lots of static B-29's in museums. So going after the Keep Bird today makes zero financial sense unless you want to throw away millions of dollars away on some burned B-29 parts.


Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see all warbirds saved and capable of flight. But there are realities we must face. Number one, we can't save them all.

[bdk]

I wonder it the recently discussed here SB-17 in Greenland still exists or could yield parts.

As far as B-24s go....and are the source for the Cosford, Pima, and Collings (and perhaps another) examples.

I think the Tallichet/Weeks example is also via India.

[sandiego89]

The only thing Kee Bird has going for her is the story she tells, or some might call it provenance. I think that is why she comes up every once in awhile, even though she is really a burnt out shell/wreckage. Any restoration of her would only use a few original pieces. Yes there are other B-29's that would be better restoration projects, but none of them that could be a potential flyer that would have the story of Kee Bird. Just like Glacier Girl, there were other P-38's that could have been recovered and restored with much less effort and much less time and money, but they do not have the story or allure. I think it is time to let her go as a possible project.

I tend to agree that Fifi and Doc will be the only flyers we will see for this generation. After that I would think that the Aero Trader hulls would be the most viable project. Some of the other outside airframes are just shells and have been sitting for decades, some in harsh environments. Most are USAF owned and won't be let go.

I would also see love to see the Plans of Fame Lucky Lady B-50 made whole with the KC-97 wings and engines, but I do think as a flyer that is a major stretch, and agree with some others that the drive for a B-50 flyer is not just there (as much as we would love to see it thundering down the runway with 4 screaming 4360's!).

[Taigh Ramey]

The wings for the Planes of Fame B-50 came from a C-97 that was here at Stockton. Hawkins and Powers had three C-97's here that they intended to tank up. They finished one and had cut the bottom out of another. When they left Stockton they took the tanked and the uncut one home with them and left the poor old gal with her belly opened up. It really was a beautiful aircraft for sure that is until the pigeons took over and destroyed it.

A guy came up from the Western Aerospace Museum named George to cut the aircraft up and send the wings to Planes of Fame. We referred to him as George and his magic chop saw. we offered the tools to remove the props proper like but he preferred the chop saw to make the blades short enough to fit on the trailer saying that these props are common.

Then he went to remove the outer wing panels from the center section. They unbolt just outboard of number one and four engine. Once again I offered the special tools needed to unbolt them but once again he preferred to use the chop saw. I came back later to see that he had cut the wing panels off by cutting on the inboard sides of the joint! I was sick. Flying or not why cut the spars on the massive one piece center section when cutting outside of the production break would have made eventual repairs a much simpler task.

What a shame.

[JohnB]

One HUGE reason why we'll never seen a B-50 fly, there just aren't any survivors out there to restore. Not as common as #
C-97s and rarer than B-47s.

NMUSAF (IIRC: they had at one time a KB and WB then sent one to Castle).
Pima
Castle
MacDill
POF...The only privately owned one.

Even the otherwise complete Museum doesn't have one.

We know how much trouble the Berlin Airlift group has had trying to get their C-97 flying, since it's basically the same airplane, the B-59 would be just as difficult. And cost wise, probably worse than the B-29s.

[JimH]

There was a rumor Clay Lacy was working on a Stratocruiser. I had heard this from a couple people that attended the H&P auction a few years ago.

Jim

[Zac Yates]

And lastly, why restore a third B-29 to flight worthy?

Because you want to?