STEARMAN PT-SERIES GLADIATOR
Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:04 am
Is there anyone out there with a PT-series Stearman that is in the process of restoring it?
An airframe that's torn down and not quite ready to go back together.
An airframe that's torn down and not quite ready to go back together.
Last edited by DIK SHEPHERD on Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:25 am
I located three derelict PT sprayers not far from my hometown that I'm going to try to salvage when I return home in a couple of weeks. One thing I've had trouble doing is finding someone who can determine their approximate value in their present condition.
I figure you're looking for a complete, unmodified Stearman rather than a old sprayer, but if one or part of these airframes might interest you, PM me and I'll try to drop you some photos once I return home.
I figure you're looking for a complete, unmodified Stearman rather than a old sprayer, but if one or part of these airframes might interest you, PM me and I'll try to drop you some photos once I return home.
Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:19 pm
Even though owning one myself would be great, I'm like the majority of the people in the Warbird movement, motivated, but without the finances.
My question was stated because of an idea. The idea being that when a particular type of aircraft is represented by countless examples showing up at airshows and the like, wouldn't it be more interesting to modify one to represent something that isn't readily available?
By this I mean, has anyone, besides myself, ever noticed that the planform and the diminsions of a Stearman PT-series and a Gloster Gladiator are almost the same. There are differences of course, the tail feathers, the single (enclosed) cockpit of the Gladiator vs the two cockpits of the Stearman, the N-struts of the Stearman vs the twin struts of the Gladiator, the Galdiator's cowled engine vs the uncowled Stearman and the upper wing fuel tank of the Stearman as opposed to the Gladiator's fuselage tank(s).
Except for the upper wing fuel tank, which I wouldn't bother with, all of the other differences, and the few hundred other minor ones, can be modified and/or fabricated.
I've seen single place Stearmans where the cockpit has been moved to a position about midway between where the two cockpits normally are, so that can be done. And, enclosing the cockpit isn't a problem either.
New vertical stabilizer/rudder and horizontal stabilizers/elevators can be made with no problem, and the other differences can also be easily taken care of.
To tell the truth, an old crop duster would be ideal for making a Stearman Gladiator, because they would have to be thoroughly gone over and, chances are, remodified from being dusters.
And, I expect, if you lined up a half-dozen PTs and a single Stearman Gladiator on an airshow flight line, you'd have more people around the Gladiator than all the PTs combined.
My question was stated because of an idea. The idea being that when a particular type of aircraft is represented by countless examples showing up at airshows and the like, wouldn't it be more interesting to modify one to represent something that isn't readily available?
By this I mean, has anyone, besides myself, ever noticed that the planform and the diminsions of a Stearman PT-series and a Gloster Gladiator are almost the same. There are differences of course, the tail feathers, the single (enclosed) cockpit of the Gladiator vs the two cockpits of the Stearman, the N-struts of the Stearman vs the twin struts of the Gladiator, the Galdiator's cowled engine vs the uncowled Stearman and the upper wing fuel tank of the Stearman as opposed to the Gladiator's fuselage tank(s).
Except for the upper wing fuel tank, which I wouldn't bother with, all of the other differences, and the few hundred other minor ones, can be modified and/or fabricated.
I've seen single place Stearmans where the cockpit has been moved to a position about midway between where the two cockpits normally are, so that can be done. And, enclosing the cockpit isn't a problem either.
New vertical stabilizer/rudder and horizontal stabilizers/elevators can be made with no problem, and the other differences can also be easily taken care of.
To tell the truth, an old crop duster would be ideal for making a Stearman Gladiator, because they would have to be thoroughly gone over and, chances are, remodified from being dusters.
And, I expect, if you lined up a half-dozen PTs and a single Stearman Gladiator on an airshow flight line, you'd have more people around the Gladiator than all the PTs combined.
Last edited by DIK SHEPHERD on Tue May 09, 2006 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Warbird Stearman's
Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:15 pm
Hi Dik, I had a similar idea last year when viewing cropduster hulks at
auction on a thread here, I think. Except my idea was to transform the
the duster's into the armed-Stearmans, many of which went south to
Latin America, Phillipines etc. in the 30's and soldiered on in WW2 as
patrol aircraft and trainers. This bird would look sweet in the seaplane
pond at Oshkosh, the 320hp Wasp S76D1 or the later 420 Cyclone powered B76DC3...
www.aerofiles.com/stear-s76D1.jpg
Also thought it would be interesting and eyecatching to modify some of
the old hulks into stand-off Warbird Waco's. Very sexy birds they were!
The Waco WHD..
www.aerofiles.com/waco-whd.jpg
CPF
www.aerofiles.com/waco-cpf.jpg
JHD-6
www.aerofiles.com/waco-jhd6.jpg
I think there's room and enough tired dusters to make both our thoughts
possible...now the easy part..just add money and sweat...
auction on a thread here, I think. Except my idea was to transform the
the duster's into the armed-Stearmans, many of which went south to
Latin America, Phillipines etc. in the 30's and soldiered on in WW2 as
patrol aircraft and trainers. This bird would look sweet in the seaplane
pond at Oshkosh, the 320hp Wasp S76D1 or the later 420 Cyclone powered B76DC3...
www.aerofiles.com/stear-s76D1.jpg
Also thought it would be interesting and eyecatching to modify some of
the old hulks into stand-off Warbird Waco's. Very sexy birds they were!
The Waco WHD..
www.aerofiles.com/waco-whd.jpg
CPF
www.aerofiles.com/waco-cpf.jpg
JHD-6
www.aerofiles.com/waco-jhd6.jpg
I think there's room and enough tired dusters to make both our thoughts
possible...now the easy part..just add money and sweat...
Tue May 02, 2006 5:56 pm
I think we talked about this last year. I have had that same thought since I was a kid and I built a Gladiator model and realized the similarities to my dad's Stearman. Maybe I was just just trying to give the Stearman more performance. Anyway, the way to do it would be to find a worn out duster that already has the 600hp. Pratt & Whitney. That way it is already rigged, plumbed, and "set up". and has the proper weight and balance and is licensed and flying. Then you have to decide on how far you want to take it. If it is going to be a spot on replica, you'll spend megabucks trying to scale the components and change the flying wire configuration, wing airfoil shape etc.
A cheaper way, and no one here in the U.S. would know the difference, would be to make it an approximation of a Gladiator. We don't have one in the U.S. to compare it to. THe GLadiators had both a two bladed wood prop and a three bladed metal. your choice. YOu would have to make the cowling, spinner, and underwing gun mounts from scratch probably from fibreglass. You would want to have a scratch built tail feathers that are similar shape and size but can work with the Stearman fuselage. The Stearman fuselage is made from 4130 steel tubing frame and is finished out with a turtle deck and stringers (I think that's what they're called) My point being the roundness and thickness of the fuselage can be changed by changing the stringers to approximate the shape of the Gladiator.
Reworking the wheels to find wheels and tires that approximate the dimensions of those on the Gladiator. My suggestion is to look at high- pressure tires and wheels like off of an A-4 Skyhawk or the like.
Cockpit- the 600 Stearman is already set up to accept a lot of weight in the front plus a hopper for the chemicals. I know the 450 Stearman I used to fly had a 10 gallon oil tank in the baggage compartment that was really for Weight and balance considerations. YOu could move the single cockpit position fore or aft to get the right scale plus you might be able to sneak a small jumpseat behind the pilots seat without changing the canopy lines of the Gladiator. The 41390 frame on the Stearman is huge and there is plentyof room to work the seating arrangement. The canopy and perspex would have to be fabricated form scratch. I wouldn't touch the tailwheel arrangement as it is pretty effective on the PT-17. Stock fuel on the Stearman is 48 gallons and the P&W R-1340 AN-1 burns 30 to 35gph depending on what you are doing so plan on converting the hopper area to additional fuel.
There you go! For less than $100,000 you are now a fighter pilot at the airshows and may get paid to bring your aircraft to displays!
Marine Air
A cheaper way, and no one here in the U.S. would know the difference, would be to make it an approximation of a Gladiator. We don't have one in the U.S. to compare it to. THe GLadiators had both a two bladed wood prop and a three bladed metal. your choice. YOu would have to make the cowling, spinner, and underwing gun mounts from scratch probably from fibreglass. You would want to have a scratch built tail feathers that are similar shape and size but can work with the Stearman fuselage. The Stearman fuselage is made from 4130 steel tubing frame and is finished out with a turtle deck and stringers (I think that's what they're called) My point being the roundness and thickness of the fuselage can be changed by changing the stringers to approximate the shape of the Gladiator.
Reworking the wheels to find wheels and tires that approximate the dimensions of those on the Gladiator. My suggestion is to look at high- pressure tires and wheels like off of an A-4 Skyhawk or the like.
Cockpit- the 600 Stearman is already set up to accept a lot of weight in the front plus a hopper for the chemicals. I know the 450 Stearman I used to fly had a 10 gallon oil tank in the baggage compartment that was really for Weight and balance considerations. YOu could move the single cockpit position fore or aft to get the right scale plus you might be able to sneak a small jumpseat behind the pilots seat without changing the canopy lines of the Gladiator. The 41390 frame on the Stearman is huge and there is plentyof room to work the seating arrangement. The canopy and perspex would have to be fabricated form scratch. I wouldn't touch the tailwheel arrangement as it is pretty effective on the PT-17. Stock fuel on the Stearman is 48 gallons and the P&W R-1340 AN-1 burns 30 to 35gph depending on what you are doing so plan on converting the hopper area to additional fuel.
There you go! For less than $100,000 you are now a fighter pilot at the airshows and may get paid to bring your aircraft to displays!
Marine Air
Tue May 02, 2006 7:40 pm
My thoughts were to make a look alike, not an exact copy of a Gladiator.
I wouldn't bother with the wings, other than to chance the "N" struts to twin struts if it doesn't upset the rigging all that much.
The Stearman's "turtleback" and sides could be rebuilt, even if out of wood, and the enclosed cockpit isn't a major obstacle. Also, new forward fuselage panels would be needed to (basically) match those of the Gladiator.
I'm sure that there is already a cowl ring available, somewhere, near enough to the style of the Gladiator that can be made to look like a Gladiator's. If not, than cutting down some other aircraft's cowl would work, like maybe a Beech D-18.
I've seen pictures of a uncovered set of tail feathers for a Gladiator, and they're no more harder to duplicate than those of a Stearman. They're just bigger and of a different design. In other words, they're not a big deal to fabricate.
I also wouldn't bother with the landing gear too much, not that the wheels are that much different between the two types. The Gladiator's might be narrower, but that's no big deal. Cover plates on the rims would probably be all I'd do.
As far as the prop is concerned, whatever engine is used would dictate what kind of prop could be used, and that would have to be up to the owner.
I wouldn't bother with the wings, other than to chance the "N" struts to twin struts if it doesn't upset the rigging all that much.
The Stearman's "turtleback" and sides could be rebuilt, even if out of wood, and the enclosed cockpit isn't a major obstacle. Also, new forward fuselage panels would be needed to (basically) match those of the Gladiator.
I'm sure that there is already a cowl ring available, somewhere, near enough to the style of the Gladiator that can be made to look like a Gladiator's. If not, than cutting down some other aircraft's cowl would work, like maybe a Beech D-18.
I've seen pictures of a uncovered set of tail feathers for a Gladiator, and they're no more harder to duplicate than those of a Stearman. They're just bigger and of a different design. In other words, they're not a big deal to fabricate.
I also wouldn't bother with the landing gear too much, not that the wheels are that much different between the two types. The Gladiator's might be narrower, but that's no big deal. Cover plates on the rims would probably be all I'd do.
As far as the prop is concerned, whatever engine is used would dictate what kind of prop could be used, and that would have to be up to the owner.
Wed May 03, 2006 12:29 pm
Hey Dik,
I just remembered that there was a 600 hp Stearman at Oshkosh that won all the top awards and the owner put a sliding canopy similar to a Grumman F3F, as well as several other mods and a smole system. It was built up by the Younkin family of Arkansas and it was named "Goliath" you see a picture of it at www.arkairmuseum.org as it is at the arkansas air museum. It's a real beauty. Another thought is that you would of course want to have the four ailerons added as the stearman doesn't have ailerons on the top wing.
The Stearman wing has the USA 35B airfoil same as a SupercCub. It might be possible to build up a set of wings using a different, higher number airfoil so that it would be faster at cruise. Maybe you would only have to change the ribs and leading edge. The Gladiator would have had something more sleek I would think. The ag community had all kinds of wing mods.
I just remembered that there was a 600 hp Stearman at Oshkosh that won all the top awards and the owner put a sliding canopy similar to a Grumman F3F, as well as several other mods and a smole system. It was built up by the Younkin family of Arkansas and it was named "Goliath" you see a picture of it at www.arkairmuseum.org as it is at the arkansas air museum. It's a real beauty. Another thought is that you would of course want to have the four ailerons added as the stearman doesn't have ailerons on the top wing.
The Stearman wing has the USA 35B airfoil same as a SupercCub. It might be possible to build up a set of wings using a different, higher number airfoil so that it would be faster at cruise. Maybe you would only have to change the ribs and leading edge. The Gladiator would have had something more sleek I would think. The ag community had all kinds of wing mods.