No Love For Hellcats?

[Steve Nelson]

So I was watching the CAF "Prowlers Of The Pacific" team buzz my house today, and it got me to thinking: why do we almost never see Hellcats on the airshow circuit? There are a fair number of airframes around, but for some reason only a handful that are airworthy, and only a couple I know of that are flown regularly. Is the F6F just considered too boring and pedestrian compared to the Corsair? Are they more expensive to operate? There are probably a dozen or more Wildcats that fly regularly, although I get that they are probably much cheaper to operate than a big R-2800 powered bird. I'm not trying to sound whiney. this isn't so much a complaint..I'm legitimately curious.

Cheers!

Steve

[Dan Jones]

We should be seeing a few more Hellcats come alive soon and get on the airshow circuit. It's a shame that a few more hadn't gotten dropped into Lake Michigan back in the day.

[OD/NG]

I think it's strictly due to the scarcity of the airframes. At one point in time, really recently, there were only 3 Hellcats airworthy and reguarly flown. The numbers have increased slightly since then and now we have 4, I believe. But, not to worry, as there are numerous airframes being restored or about to be restored soon. I know of plans for, essentially, a mini-Hellcat production line to be started from at least two major restoration companies/groups/facilities. Between the two of them, they could produce 8 Hellcats, provided buyers/investors are found to fund the restorations. In addition to that, there are at least 4 to 5 more other ones currently in restoration to flying condition. So, we could see about 12 more flying Hellcats within the next 8 to 10 years if the funding materializes. Before anybody asks, unfortunately, I can't provide any more details. I will leave it to the owners/organizations/groups to make the announcements on these, because I'm pretty sure they are "under the radar", and haven't been publically announced yet.

For anybody that's interested - yes, there are plenty of Hellcat projects available that can be restored to airworthy. All it takes is cubic dollars!

So, the future is very, very bright for the Hellcat - dare I say brighter than for any other rare type out there currently.

[Dan Jones]

That mini Hellcat production line... (I know you said you can't say anymore)

BUT...

Are we talking something like dataplate rebuilds of just junk, or brand new Hellcat replicas like the 262's and Oscars? From what I've read and seen of the Hellcat over the years it does look like a much simpler airplane to build from scratch than say a Spitfire or an F4U.

[OD/NG]

That mini Hellcat production line... (I know you said you can't say anymore)

BUT...

Are we talking something like dataplate rebuilds of just junk, or brand new Hellcat replicas like the 262's and Oscars? From what I've read and seen of the Hellcat over the years it does look like a much simpler airplane to build from scratch than say a Spitfire or an F4U.

Not replica's like the 262's or Oscars, but real Hellcats, based off of original parts with some new build parts, just like any other modern warbird restoration.

[JohnTerrell]

Right now, there are about 4 Hellcats considered airworthy - the Commemorative Air Force SoCal Wing's, the Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum's, the Erickson Aircraft Collection's, and Dan Friedkin's. The first three of which I know have been active within the last year, though I don't know if Friedkin's has flown in a while (it has been on display at the Lone Star Flight Musuem since its opening last year).

As long as everything goes smoothly, Fagen's Hellcat should be flying by next summer. The Collings Foundation's Hellcat sounds to be getting very close to completion. I don't know how far along it is right now, but the Rod Lewis Hellcat (formerly owned/operated by The Fighter Collection in England) has been undergoing extensive restoration for a few years now - the entire airframe was stripped down to bare, basic structure. The Allied Fighters Hellcat is undergoing restoration to fly with Vintage Airframes (same company that restored "Dottie Mae"). The Palm Springs Air Museum/Pond-family Hellcat used to be an active/regular flyer in the years prior to Bob Pond's death.

Everything I've ever heard/read makes the Hellcat out to be an absolute delight to fly/operate, with fantastic performance and great handling characteristics.

[Steve Nelson]

This is all great news! I guess we've just been going through a bit of a Hellcat "drought" in recent years. The last one I saw fly was the Planes of Fame's F6F back in the early 2000s, and it crashed shortly thereafter. I'm glad the current lack of flying Hellcats isn't due to some inherent prejudice or lack of interest. It's arguably one of the most important fighters of WWII..certainly THE most important USN fighter of the war. It just seemed a little surprising that one wasn't included in the big VE Day flyover in DC last year, or at the big Centennial of Naval Aviation Show at Thunder Over Michigan in 2011. Here's hoping we'll see more Hellcats tearing up the skies in the coming years!

SN

[JohnTerrell]

Once the Hellcat owned by Fagen Fighters begins flying (as told, the hope is by next summer), it will be interesting to see what sort of demand there is for it at airshows throughout the midwest and east coast.

[Dan Jones]

Was there anything left of the POF Hellcat after it's accident to be a possible candidate for resurrection one day?

[OD/NG]

Was there anything left of the POF Hellcat after it's accident to be a possible candidate for resurrection one day?

I don't believe so. From the pictures I've seen of the wreckage, it looks like it's only good for small parts, pieces, fittings, etc. If it is resurrected, it will be added, undoubtedly to other parts from other Hellcats to make one complete one. Just my opinion.

[Dan Jones]

I'm glad to hear that someone is at least contemplating a Hellcat run. After seeing pictures of the Lexington's aircraft on the bottom this Spring I'm sure there's a few near pristine F6F's in very deep water out there. It would be nice if someone sprung the F6F hulk off the windvane at Andrews someday. I'd sure like to see some detailed pics of that one and see just what all is there.

[Saville]

What was the performance of the Hellcat as compared to other R-2800 planes of the period?

Did it have the necessary super/turbocharger to get to high alt and as high a speed as the Thunderbolt?

Same question for the Corsair.

I have the impression that Hellcats were not designed to be high altitude high speed fighters but, rather, carrier-born fighters with the necessary weight and performance penalty that carrier aircraft must suffer and that it was designed to operate in a theater where lower altitudes wer ethe norm.

But I'm happy to have my impressions corrected.

[Saville]

What was the performance of the Hellcat as compared to other R-2800 planes of the period?

Did it have the necessary super/turbocharger to get to high alt and as high a speed as the Thunderbolt?

Same question for the Corsair.

I have the impression that Hellcats were not designed to be high altitude high speed fighters but, rather, carrier-born fighters with the necessary weight and performance penalty that carrier aircraft must suffer and that it was designed to operate in a theater where lower altitudes were the norm.

But I'm happy to have my impressions corrected.

[sandiego89]

Great news on the projects. I do agree the Hellcat suffers a bit recognition wise compared to other fighters. Possible factors:

- Not as iconic as other fighters. Not because of its impressive record, but just in general terms. The Pacific Theatre seems less appreciated/known that the European Theatre. Part of that may be distance. The carrier war was a long way away from home. Hellcat aces and squadrons are much less known that pilots on other types. McCampbell barely known to the general public.
- Overshadowed by other types, especially the Corsair and Wildcat. Similar to the Spitfire/Hurricane recognition perhaps.
- Not as "sexy" as other types. While we enthusiasts appreciate it, I don't think anyone has ever regarded the Hellcat as sexy, pretty or graceful. Purposeful perhaps.
- Quickly phased out of US and Foreign service. Quickly replaced by the Bearcat and other types. P-51s and Corsairs lasted much longer in service resulting in more exposure, and many more survivors. Foreign service with Britain, France and Uruguay not as remarkable/noted as other types.
- Survival rate. As above. Few survived scrapping.
- Never a star in a movie or TV show. Older documentaries on the "Turkey Shoot" are about the only exposure.

[JohnTerrell]

The Hellcat was ranked quite highly among WWII pilots, but perhaps wasn't as preferred as the Corsair among Navy/Marine pilots that had experience with both. At the Joint Fighter Conference held in 1944, the Hellcat came out on or near the top in many categories where it was judged directly with the P-51, Corsair, P-47, P-38, Seafire, Mosquito and Zero. The Hellcat was ranked #1 in all of the following categories when compared to all of the aforementioned aircraft:

- The best for overloaded take-off from a small area
- The best ailerons at 100 mph (landing speed)
- The best rudder
- The best all-around stability
- The best characteristics 5 mph above stall

Well known and appreciated as being a very docile, stable and near-viceless aircraft, with superlative stall and landing characteristics.

The Hellcat was ranked second behind the Corsair for best elevators, second behind the Corsair for best combination day/night fighter, second behind the Corsair for best carrier based fighter, third behind the P-47 and Corsair for best armor, third behind the P-47 and Corsair for best control and stability in a dive, third behind the Corsair and P-51 for nicest harmonization of control forces, third behind the P-51 and Corsair for best all-around fighter below 25,000 ft, fourth behind the P-51, Corsair and P-38 for best ailerons at 350 mph (high speed), and fourth behind the P-47, P-51 and Corsair for best all-around fighter above 25,000 ft. It was tied with the Mosquito in third place for best fighter bomber behind the Corsair and P-47, and tied with the P-51 for third best strafer behind the P-47 and Corsair. Of course it was powered by the R-2800, which was ranked (far and above) the best, most confidence-inspiring engine among those ranked (the others being the Merlin and Allison).

The Hellcat was about 37-71 mph slower than the Corsair, depending on variants - the official top speed in the F6F-5 was 385 mph at 23,200 ft with water injection and a service ceiling of 37,000 ft. The Navy and Marine Corps Hellcats are credited with 5,156 air-to-air kills, compared to 2,140 credited to Navy and Marine Corsairs. There were 306 Navy/Marine Hellcat aces compared to 93 Navy/Marine Corsair aces.

All of the above information is taken from the Thomas Brinkman book, The Vought F4U Corsair and its Contemporaries.

I recall Steve Hinton making very favorable descriptions of its performance and handling characteristics in the old Roaring Glory Hellcat checkout, with something like a 3,000 fpm climb rate at max-continuous power, and great forward visibility even in the three-point/ground attitude.

Perhaps the one thing that has contributed most to the Hellcat not receiving as much attention as some other types is its rather plain looks - it perhaps doesn't have as unique of a design or as sexy a look as its contemporaries. Other than the Grumman wing fold, it was a very straight-forward design, and appears all business.

Last edited by JohnTerrell on Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.