Tue May 16, 2006 11:31 am
Dan Jones wrote:I suspect that short of a complete recreation, her flying days are long over.
Dan
Several aircraft over the years have been as you call it "recreated". Does that make them anyless pertenant? I don't believe so. Either way it goes some degree of recreation is going to have to happen.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Tue May 16, 2006 12:34 pm
Yeah, essentially you'd end up tearing LBG's remains apart for patterns, after which you'd have a newly constructed B-24. Meanwhile all of the original LBG material (minus a few castings & fittings) would consequently end up at the roadside awaiting the scrap man. I applaud the desire to see her spirit resurrected, but in reality it's just another ironic method of eradicating relics (even if they are tattered) to the dump IMO.
You can do this with planes like "Glacier Girl" because the recovery and restoration is what made the story and the relevant history for that particular plane. The Lady Be Good's historic relevance OTOH is already established and written in blood, and the image of her wreckage has always been what told the story. I figure it would be more prudent to preserve what remains of the original touchstone rather than trashing it in efforts to recreate a faux version of her to parade out on the air show scene. You can’t argue that the image of her wreckage is what has always told the story. It would be a travesty to see that same wreckage being picked up by the recycler just so we could fool ourselves into believing the Lade Be Good has somehow been miraculously resurrected.
You can do this with planes like "Glacier Girl" because the recovery and restoration is what made the story and the relevant history for that particular plane. The Lady Be Good's historic relevance OTOH is already established and written in blood, and the image of her wreckage has always been what told the story. I figure it would be more prudent to preserve what remains of the original touchstone rather than trashing it in efforts to recreate a faux version of her to parade out on the air show scene. You can’t argue that the image of her wreckage is what has always told the story. It would be a travesty to see that same wreckage being picked up by the recycler just so we could fool ourselves into believing the Lade Be Good has somehow been miraculously resurrected.
Tue May 16, 2006 3:24 pm
My point was that if you took all the remains of LBG and built a flying Lib out of it all, you'd very likely have more of it left over that you didn't use than you did use in the finished airplane. I have no issue with recreation, I've done alot of it myself for my own airplanes, but it would be hard for me at least to be able to call a new flying Liberator "LBG" if 90 - 95% of it was new. That in no way detracts from it being a Liberator, or being a pertinent piece of living history, or being a spectacular feat of engineering in and of itself, but speaking solely for myself, I couldn't consider it "the real "Lady Be Good". I'd rather see the airplane (or what's left of it) preserved as is and in a desert diorama - but that's just me.
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Dan
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Dan
Tue May 16, 2006 3:51 pm
The pictures I've seen of the remains in secure yard in no way resemble the pictures taken of her when found in the desert. If you didn't know it was a B-24, I doubt that you tell it without close examination.
Tue May 16, 2006 7:53 pm
Rob Mears wrote:You can do this with planes like "Glacier Girl" because the recovery and restoration is what made the story and the relevant history for that particular plane.
Speaking of GG. Over 80% of the original aircraft was reused in the restoration. Now I'm not saying that that high of a percentage of LBG could be reused given her current condition. But it would be interesting to see how much. And I imagine that the left over peices would get put to good use. Alot of the left over peices of GG were cut up into smaller peices and sold (with certificates of authenticity) to help finance the restoration. Who wouldn't want a peice of LBG hanging on their wall? Just keeping an open mind.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Tue May 16, 2006 8:51 pm
Sorry Shay, I don't see it that way. There was no loss of life with GG. LBG lost the whole crew and one is still out in the desert somewhere. To sell pieces of LBG is too much like the vultures circling to me.
Tue May 16, 2006 9:00 pm
Hi guys
some things
You only have to look at the pics - she will not fly again except as a replica with minimal original content. There are better basis around if you want one to fly.
Certainly bring her back and sympatheticaly restore her for static and use as much as possible of the original and put her on display - she is too historic to me to use as patterns etc. Sure Glacier Girl was 80% but that was because it was well preserved and intact - this was a banged up aircraft cut up with saws and thrown on trucks by people that didn't give a toss - a lot of difference here
Just so everyone else knows what we are talking about........
"LADY BE GOOD"
At 2:50 p.m. on Apr. 4, 1943, 25 B-24Ds of the 376th Bomb Group took off from their AAF base at Soluch, Libya, for a high-altitude bombing attack against harbor facilities at Naples, Italy. All planes but one returned safely to Allied territory that night--the one which was missing was the Lady Be Good.
Almost 16 years later on Nov. 9th, 1958, several British geologists were flying over the desolate, sun-baked Libyan Desert. At approximately 400 miles south of Soluch, they spotted an aircraft on the sand. A ground party which reached the site in March 1959 discovered the plane to be a B-24D. The "Lady Be Good" had been found.
Evidence at the site indicated that the crew had become lost in the dark on return from Naples and had flown over their base and southward into the desert. As their fuel supply became depleted, the nine men aboard had bailed out but had disappeared while attempting to walk northward to civilization.
Intensive searches were made for clues as to the fate of the crew and in 1960 the remains of eight were found, one near the plane and the other seven far to the north. Five had trekked 78 miles across the tortuous sand before perishing and one had gone an amazing 109 miles. In addition, they had lived eight days rather than only two expected of men in this area with little or no water. The body of the ninth man was never found.
Numerous parts from the "Lady Be Good" were returned to the U.S. for technical study. Also, some of the parts were installed in other planes, aircraft which then experienced unexpected difficulties. A C-54 in which several autosyn transmitters were installed had propeller trouble and made a safe landing only by throwing cargo overboard. A C-47 in which a radio receiver was installed ditched in the Mediterranean, and a U.S. Army "Otter" airplane in which a "Lady Be Good" seat armrest was installed crashed in the Gulf of Sidra with 10 men aboard. No trace was ever found of any of them; one of the few pieces washed ashore was the armrest of the "Lady Be Good."
The ill-fated crew of the Lady Be Good from the left: 1st Lt. W.J. Hatton, Pilot; 2d Lt. R.F. Toner, Copilot; 2d Lt. D.P. Hays, Navigator; 2d Lt. J.S. Woravka, Bombardier; T/Sgt. H.J. Ripslinger, Engineer; T/Sgt. R.E. LaMotte, Radio Operator; S/Sgt. G.E. Shelly, Gunner; S/Sgt. V.L. Moore, Gunner; and S/Sgt. S.E. Adams, Gunner.
The Lady Be Good as it appeared when discovered from the air.
Aircraft parts were strewn by the Lady Be Good as it skidded to a halt amid the otherwise emptiness of the desert.
The Lady Be Good Stained Glass Window from the Wheelus AFB Chapel.
some things
You only have to look at the pics - she will not fly again except as a replica with minimal original content. There are better basis around if you want one to fly.
Certainly bring her back and sympatheticaly restore her for static and use as much as possible of the original and put her on display - she is too historic to me to use as patterns etc. Sure Glacier Girl was 80% but that was because it was well preserved and intact - this was a banged up aircraft cut up with saws and thrown on trucks by people that didn't give a toss - a lot of difference here
Just so everyone else knows what we are talking about........
"LADY BE GOOD"
At 2:50 p.m. on Apr. 4, 1943, 25 B-24Ds of the 376th Bomb Group took off from their AAF base at Soluch, Libya, for a high-altitude bombing attack against harbor facilities at Naples, Italy. All planes but one returned safely to Allied territory that night--the one which was missing was the Lady Be Good.
Almost 16 years later on Nov. 9th, 1958, several British geologists were flying over the desolate, sun-baked Libyan Desert. At approximately 400 miles south of Soluch, they spotted an aircraft on the sand. A ground party which reached the site in March 1959 discovered the plane to be a B-24D. The "Lady Be Good" had been found.
Evidence at the site indicated that the crew had become lost in the dark on return from Naples and had flown over their base and southward into the desert. As their fuel supply became depleted, the nine men aboard had bailed out but had disappeared while attempting to walk northward to civilization.
Intensive searches were made for clues as to the fate of the crew and in 1960 the remains of eight were found, one near the plane and the other seven far to the north. Five had trekked 78 miles across the tortuous sand before perishing and one had gone an amazing 109 miles. In addition, they had lived eight days rather than only two expected of men in this area with little or no water. The body of the ninth man was never found.
Numerous parts from the "Lady Be Good" were returned to the U.S. for technical study. Also, some of the parts were installed in other planes, aircraft which then experienced unexpected difficulties. A C-54 in which several autosyn transmitters were installed had propeller trouble and made a safe landing only by throwing cargo overboard. A C-47 in which a radio receiver was installed ditched in the Mediterranean, and a U.S. Army "Otter" airplane in which a "Lady Be Good" seat armrest was installed crashed in the Gulf of Sidra with 10 men aboard. No trace was ever found of any of them; one of the few pieces washed ashore was the armrest of the "Lady Be Good."
The ill-fated crew of the Lady Be Good from the left: 1st Lt. W.J. Hatton, Pilot; 2d Lt. R.F. Toner, Copilot; 2d Lt. D.P. Hays, Navigator; 2d Lt. J.S. Woravka, Bombardier; T/Sgt. H.J. Ripslinger, Engineer; T/Sgt. R.E. LaMotte, Radio Operator; S/Sgt. G.E. Shelly, Gunner; S/Sgt. V.L. Moore, Gunner; and S/Sgt. S.E. Adams, Gunner.
The Lady Be Good as it appeared when discovered from the air.
Aircraft parts were strewn by the Lady Be Good as it skidded to a halt amid the otherwise emptiness of the desert.
The Lady Be Good Stained Glass Window from the Wheelus AFB Chapel.
Tue May 16, 2006 9:51 pm
RickH wrote: LBG lost the whole crew and one is still out in the desert somewhere. To sell pieces of LBG is too much like the vultures circling to me.
I'm not sure I can agree with you. LBG would not be considered a war grave. There was no loss of life aboard her. All of her crew bailed out. I agree that the loss of the crew is tragic, but there have been several airframes recovered over the years that have been restored or under restoration by where the pilots or crew remain lost or missing.
Regardless of anyone's personal point of views I think all of us agree that LBG and the memory of her crew deserve better than to have the aircraft rot away in the back of a police compound.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Tue May 16, 2006 10:52 pm
shay
very true
john P
very true
john P
Tue May 16, 2006 10:59 pm
Until the offer gets made though I wouldn't get my hopes up. The Libyans may feel the airplane should stay right where it is. What we would call up here a "cultural property".
Was the USAFM's "Strawberry Bitch" on that raid?
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Dan
Was the USAFM's "Strawberry Bitch" on that raid?
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Dan
Tue May 16, 2006 11:18 pm
Really? I had no idea. Has anyone expressed any interest in receiving/displaying the aircraft?
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Dan
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Dan
Wed May 17, 2006 7:19 am
Just thought I would pass this along. Might get a chance to see new pictures of LBG here soon. I get the feeling from the minster's words that they might be willing to let LBG go, but that's only a misguided vibe.
Taken from http://www.ladybegood.com forum:
"A Message From The Custodian of Lady Be Good"
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Taken from http://www.ladybegood.com forum:
"A Message From The Custodian of Lady Be Good"
Tobruk_Skippy wrote:Dear Lady Be Good enthusiasts,
My name is Felicity (from Australia) and I am sitting in an Net cafe in Tobruk, Libya, with the new minister of tourism for the province, teaching him how to use the internet. The wreckage of the Lady Be Good sits in the concrete yard outside his office, and I must say your fair ship is in a pretty sorry state today. I saw it this morning, in fact.
There is currently a dog with puppies living in the body of the plane.
The excellent historical descriptions on this website have brought the plane back to life for us, and I thank you.
The minister has this message for you (Translation):
"Dear Friends, if you would like to visit 'Lady Be Good' in Tobruk we will offer you all hospitality. Sadly, she is in poor condition, beyond restoration, but perhaps you could tidy her up.
You are welcome to stay at beautiful San George beach, where the friends of 'Lady Be Good' can camp for free (maximum: 10). There is also a guesthouse there.
For information about a "Lady Be Good" expedition to Tobruk, where there are also many other WWII relics, please contact fathi.golf@yahoo.com
My best wishes to you,
Abdul Baset, Minister for Tourism, Tobruk."
His email address is
abdulbasettobruk@yahoo.com
But he doesn't speak much English yet so
if you write, you will need to be patient while your message and his reply are translated. Therefore, I'll check back at this forum soon to see if anyone has replied or if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Felicity, and Minister Abdul Baset.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Wed May 17, 2006 7:39 am
I can't see why the the remains of LBG would remain in Libya much longer, it holds no tourism value displayed in that country in my view. I can see it headed to the US in the near future.
Wed May 17, 2006 3:20 pm
Chile's Chavez in Libya today. He met with Quadaffi, maybe he wants to sell F-16s to him ?