Mon May 22, 2006 8:42 pm
I say!!!
Remarkable performance figures for this version - no wonder they want to recover this machine - 65,000 Lb Bombload with 1400 MPH WOW I want me one of dem!!!
Regards
John P
For what its worth (not much) My opinion is this is a great outcome so far - Be interested in it's actual fate - in life nothing is a sure bet - also needs to get the hell out of there before some anal retentive siezes it as appears to be in the wind .........
Remarkable performance figures for this version - no wonder they want to recover this machine - 65,000 Lb Bombload with 1400 MPH WOW I want me one of dem!!!
Regards
John P
For what its worth (not much) My opinion is this is a great outcome so far - Be interested in it's actual fate - in life nothing is a sure bet - also needs to get the hell out of there before some anal retentive siezes it as appears to be in the wind .........
Mon May 22, 2006 9:05 pm
The final resting place for the Swamp Ghost would be at a museum at Longbeach in California, United States.
I take it Swamp Ghost won't be a flying restoration.
Mon May 22, 2006 9:16 pm
Exciting news to be sure. Long Awaited.
Very impressive that they lifted the fuselage in one peice. I would of imagined atleast lifting it in 2 sections. I very much want to see in depth pictures of the recovery efforts.
I'm still baffled as to whome is running the show. Rob is telling us Talaichet and the press and pacific wrecks is saying Hagen. Who is the all and powerful OZ behind the curtain? And if Swamp Ghost is slated to go to long beach is someone there bank rolling this venture?
Regardless, I tip my hat and raise my glass to all the people involved.
I do hope she leaves the country post haste. It sounds as if there are concerned others who are working frantically behind the scenes at this very moment to spoil this victory. God Speed
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Very impressive that they lifted the fuselage in one peice. I would of imagined atleast lifting it in 2 sections. I very much want to see in depth pictures of the recovery efforts.
I'm still baffled as to whome is running the show. Rob is telling us Talaichet and the press and pacific wrecks is saying Hagen. Who is the all and powerful OZ behind the curtain? And if Swamp Ghost is slated to go to long beach is someone there bank rolling this venture?
Regardless, I tip my hat and raise my glass to all the people involved.
I do hope she leaves the country post haste. It sounds as if there are concerned others who are working frantically behind the scenes at this very moment to spoil this victory. God Speed
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Mon May 22, 2006 9:19 pm
Col. Rohr wrote:As for Black Cat Pass aircraft from what I understand the same written agreement that allowed Swamp Ghost to be recovered was also issue for Black Cat
Rob
I owe you an apology for doubting you.
Can you be any chance "predict" a timeline for when and if Black Cat is getting recoverd?
Thanks
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Mon May 22, 2006 9:57 pm
Guys
I just doesn't work like that.
In PNG there would have been a process to get in place a series of people who could make this happen and who had the influence to stop it coming undone. There are people who have built up good relationships and who know who to contact and organise things through they in turn work with locals etc to try to stop any local issues arising as well - for instance cars have been bought and Village halls erected etc Then the logistics are organised and done as fast as possible for obvious reasons - surprise and speed of action are paramount in case something untoward happens and as far as possible secrecy although that is hard in the case of Swamp Ghost!!
Paper ownership is not necessarily ownership in the PNG context - If the Black Cat Pass machine moves i expect it will happen suddenly and quickly as is also the case with the B24 wrecks still there and it will be the smart guys who are well connected who do the deal
As for the OZ involved here - he is just a guy who worked his guts out over many years and knows how to do it as a result - there is no substitute for spade work - I am not at all surprised he was involved and i would think without him nothing would have happened.
Nothing in this world is free however and I think there will reprocussions from this recovery - not everyone wants these machines to go from PNG and the people who want the tourist dollar will kick up a stink as will the locals which will cool things off for a while perhaps. I also expect rivals to the new owners and vested interests will also fight a rearguard action which will create a bit of a stink likely to cloud future recoveries for a while.
There are also some nice other recoveries which I would love to see and just perhaps we may see this as a catalyst as I mentioned there is still much B24 material and a clapped out but historic B24D cannon nose as well as a Beaufighter etc
Add to this the ongoing perchant for the locals to cut up and scrap everything in site and the danger of lawlessness and there is a real mix of positives and negatives in PNG and Indonesia
Regards
John p
I just doesn't work like that.
In PNG there would have been a process to get in place a series of people who could make this happen and who had the influence to stop it coming undone. There are people who have built up good relationships and who know who to contact and organise things through they in turn work with locals etc to try to stop any local issues arising as well - for instance cars have been bought and Village halls erected etc Then the logistics are organised and done as fast as possible for obvious reasons - surprise and speed of action are paramount in case something untoward happens and as far as possible secrecy although that is hard in the case of Swamp Ghost!!
Paper ownership is not necessarily ownership in the PNG context - If the Black Cat Pass machine moves i expect it will happen suddenly and quickly as is also the case with the B24 wrecks still there and it will be the smart guys who are well connected who do the deal
As for the OZ involved here - he is just a guy who worked his guts out over many years and knows how to do it as a result - there is no substitute for spade work - I am not at all surprised he was involved and i would think without him nothing would have happened.
Nothing in this world is free however and I think there will reprocussions from this recovery - not everyone wants these machines to go from PNG and the people who want the tourist dollar will kick up a stink as will the locals which will cool things off for a while perhaps. I also expect rivals to the new owners and vested interests will also fight a rearguard action which will create a bit of a stink likely to cloud future recoveries for a while.
There are also some nice other recoveries which I would love to see and just perhaps we may see this as a catalyst as I mentioned there is still much B24 material and a clapped out but historic B24D cannon nose as well as a Beaufighter etc
Add to this the ongoing perchant for the locals to cut up and scrap everything in site and the danger of lawlessness and there is a real mix of positives and negatives in PNG and Indonesia
Regards
John p
Mon May 22, 2006 10:12 pm
B-24D CANNON NOSE? 
Do tell, please!
Do tell, please!
Mon May 22, 2006 10:18 pm
m50a1ontos
Writers thumb sorry B25D complete with 75mm Cannon
Regards
John p
Writers thumb sorry B25D complete with 75mm Cannon
Regards
John p
Mon May 22, 2006 10:27 pm
Ah...okay! 
A Pappy Gunn original? or factory bird?
A Pappy Gunn original? or factory bird?
Mon May 22, 2006 10:29 pm
Col. Rohr
Hi Rob
Wish it was all that simple PNG is on the edge of disaster in terms of Government , Finances and lawlessness - so much money is being pumped in there to keep the ship afloat - Solomons are the same.
Paperwork may well count for a bit but at the end of the day it is more dependant on the operation and on the ground spadework prior,during and after the recovery that gets the thing done. We can speculate but these operations are by their nature secretave and have to be done in a clandestine mode most of the time - I doubt there will be a book about this one
John
Hi Rob
Wish it was all that simple PNG is on the edge of disaster in terms of Government , Finances and lawlessness - so much money is being pumped in there to keep the ship afloat - Solomons are the same.
Paperwork may well count for a bit but at the end of the day it is more dependant on the operation and on the ground spadework prior,during and after the recovery that gets the thing done. We can speculate but these operations are by their nature secretave and have to be done in a clandestine mode most of the time - I doubt there will be a book about this one
John
Mon May 22, 2006 10:31 pm
Setter,
Not to change the subject, but did you mention in a previous post about a B-17 ditched off of Queensland?
Not to change the subject, but did you mention in a previous post about a B-17 ditched off of Queensland?
Mon May 22, 2006 11:09 pm
Hi .........some information as usual from the fantastic pacific wrecks site
Re B25 it is an H I got my designations stuffed although i believe there is also an D model Cannon bus there as well
Walkabout 2001
Leaving Brisbane on 30th September 2001, first stop was Port Moresby for a dash through customs and down to the domestic terminal for the flight to Hoskins in New Britain.
Cecilie Benjamin from Walindi Resort had kindly made available a room at the resort for the night and the driver picked me up from the airport. A cool drink was appreciated but I initially mistook the cool rolled up blue towel for some sort of exotic food before gratefully mopping the sweaty brow. Hoskins had been a major Japanese airbase during the war and aerial shots showed an extensive dispersal area amongst the coconut palms to the south of the strip. Worth some investigation at some time. Cecilie later showed me a great photo taken by an Australian Beaufighter pilot as he buzzed the control tower.
Ki-46 Dinah Wreckage
On the way to the resort, the driver mentioned a Japanese wreck in the oil palm plantation at Numundo, located at the base of the Willaumez Peninsula. I immediately asked him if we could have a look now. Hey it had been over 4 years since I last cast eyes over a genuine Pacific wreck so I was up for it.
The wreck, a Ki-46 Dinah is a sorry sight compared to what it was. A photo taken in 1988 showed considerable remains, but in the last few years some irresponsible types have got at it. This comparison taken from the same angle clearly shows the deterioration caused by vandals.) Still readily identifiable though.
It had crash landed on what was formerly clear coastal land only 100 metres or so from the water's edge. Now the wreck lies amidst the oil palm trees so prevalent in this region. When the arguments are made about the value of plane wrecks left in sit or in museums, this type of situation certainly supports the relocation and thus preservation of the aeroplane. The Ki-46 Dinah was one of the most capable aircraft to come out of Japan during the war.
Hoskins airstrip today
Ki-46 in 1988
Comparison shot 2001
Walindi Resort
Next stop was Walindi Resort to meet Cecilie Benjamin and to sit down over a nice meal and a few beers to look out over the beautiful ocean to the volcanic cones beyond and discuss aircraft wrecks etc. Walindi is a great spot, and for anyone who dives or would like to learn, it is ideally set up.
The guesthouses are set out along the coast, open to the breeze coming off the bay, and a large "Haus Win" has been set up for eating, drinking or just chilling out looking over the calm waters of the bay or the adjacent swimming pool. Diving facilities are top class with all equipment available as well as fully equipped dive boats and a top class dive master. Add to that a fully equipped photo and video editing lab and you have the makings of a great underwater experience. Vist walindi.com for more information.
Looking out over the calm stillness of the bay to the volcanic horizon
Guesthouse, Walindi
A6M2 Zero
And for the aircraft enthusiast there is the recently discovered A6M2 Zero fighter S/N 8224 in 50 feet of water not far from Walindi. It is a quite amazing wreck. Undisturbed for over 50 years, it was thought to have run out of fuel on a sortie from Rabaul to the American beachhead at Cape Gloucester at the southern end of New Britain. For any divers it is a fine wreck to see and Walindi dive resort can organize for you to see it.
B-25H Mitchell
Located at the edge of the former airstrip at Talasea are the fuselages of B-25H Mitchell 43-4513 and Lockheed Ventura NZ4522. Both aircraft landed at the emergency strip at Talasea within a week of each other in September 1944 and were never flown off due to the shortage of the strip.
B-25H 43-4513 was from the 100th Bomb Squadron from the 42nd Bomb Group based in the Solomons and its final take off was from Coronus airstrip on the Stirling Islands on September 3rd 1944. Part of a flight of three Mitchells piloted by Captain Wolfendale, the mission was to patrol the New Britain coast for enemy transports. The weather was very poor as the planes approached New Britain but as they followed the coast down past Cape Orford an enemy tug with supply barges in tow was spotted heading to Palmalmal with supplies from Rabaul. Out in the open water with only LMG defence, the Japanese were an easy target and Wofendale's Mitchell blew the tug out of the water with the fearsome T9E1 75mm chin gun. But soon thereafter trouble struck as one of the Wright R-2600 radial engines failed and the other started to run rough. Knowing he had to get down in a hurry, Wolfendale headed for the emergency strip at Talasea where he blew the nose tyre and collapsed the front landing gear, but got the plane down OK. The plane was towed to the end of the strip and left where it sits today.
Swamp Ghost
Now here is a good article on SG and other recoveries etc - worth a read
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b ... report.pdf
B17 ditched off Cooktown is B17E 41-9196 and is visable from the air and largely intact
Regards
john p
Re B25 it is an H I got my designations stuffed although i believe there is also an D model Cannon bus there as well
Walkabout 2001
Leaving Brisbane on 30th September 2001, first stop was Port Moresby for a dash through customs and down to the domestic terminal for the flight to Hoskins in New Britain.
Cecilie Benjamin from Walindi Resort had kindly made available a room at the resort for the night and the driver picked me up from the airport. A cool drink was appreciated but I initially mistook the cool rolled up blue towel for some sort of exotic food before gratefully mopping the sweaty brow. Hoskins had been a major Japanese airbase during the war and aerial shots showed an extensive dispersal area amongst the coconut palms to the south of the strip. Worth some investigation at some time. Cecilie later showed me a great photo taken by an Australian Beaufighter pilot as he buzzed the control tower.
Ki-46 Dinah Wreckage
On the way to the resort, the driver mentioned a Japanese wreck in the oil palm plantation at Numundo, located at the base of the Willaumez Peninsula. I immediately asked him if we could have a look now. Hey it had been over 4 years since I last cast eyes over a genuine Pacific wreck so I was up for it.
The wreck, a Ki-46 Dinah is a sorry sight compared to what it was. A photo taken in 1988 showed considerable remains, but in the last few years some irresponsible types have got at it. This comparison taken from the same angle clearly shows the deterioration caused by vandals.) Still readily identifiable though.
It had crash landed on what was formerly clear coastal land only 100 metres or so from the water's edge. Now the wreck lies amidst the oil palm trees so prevalent in this region. When the arguments are made about the value of plane wrecks left in sit or in museums, this type of situation certainly supports the relocation and thus preservation of the aeroplane. The Ki-46 Dinah was one of the most capable aircraft to come out of Japan during the war.
Hoskins airstrip today
Ki-46 in 1988
Comparison shot 2001
Walindi Resort
Next stop was Walindi Resort to meet Cecilie Benjamin and to sit down over a nice meal and a few beers to look out over the beautiful ocean to the volcanic cones beyond and discuss aircraft wrecks etc. Walindi is a great spot, and for anyone who dives or would like to learn, it is ideally set up.
The guesthouses are set out along the coast, open to the breeze coming off the bay, and a large "Haus Win" has been set up for eating, drinking or just chilling out looking over the calm waters of the bay or the adjacent swimming pool. Diving facilities are top class with all equipment available as well as fully equipped dive boats and a top class dive master. Add to that a fully equipped photo and video editing lab and you have the makings of a great underwater experience. Vist walindi.com for more information.
Looking out over the calm stillness of the bay to the volcanic horizon
Guesthouse, Walindi
A6M2 Zero
And for the aircraft enthusiast there is the recently discovered A6M2 Zero fighter S/N 8224 in 50 feet of water not far from Walindi. It is a quite amazing wreck. Undisturbed for over 50 years, it was thought to have run out of fuel on a sortie from Rabaul to the American beachhead at Cape Gloucester at the southern end of New Britain. For any divers it is a fine wreck to see and Walindi dive resort can organize for you to see it.
B-25H Mitchell
Located at the edge of the former airstrip at Talasea are the fuselages of B-25H Mitchell 43-4513 and Lockheed Ventura NZ4522. Both aircraft landed at the emergency strip at Talasea within a week of each other in September 1944 and were never flown off due to the shortage of the strip.
B-25H 43-4513 was from the 100th Bomb Squadron from the 42nd Bomb Group based in the Solomons and its final take off was from Coronus airstrip on the Stirling Islands on September 3rd 1944. Part of a flight of three Mitchells piloted by Captain Wolfendale, the mission was to patrol the New Britain coast for enemy transports. The weather was very poor as the planes approached New Britain but as they followed the coast down past Cape Orford an enemy tug with supply barges in tow was spotted heading to Palmalmal with supplies from Rabaul. Out in the open water with only LMG defence, the Japanese were an easy target and Wofendale's Mitchell blew the tug out of the water with the fearsome T9E1 75mm chin gun. But soon thereafter trouble struck as one of the Wright R-2600 radial engines failed and the other started to run rough. Knowing he had to get down in a hurry, Wolfendale headed for the emergency strip at Talasea where he blew the nose tyre and collapsed the front landing gear, but got the plane down OK. The plane was towed to the end of the strip and left where it sits today.
Swamp Ghost
Now here is a good article on SG and other recoveries etc - worth a read
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b ... report.pdf
B17 ditched off Cooktown is B17E 41-9196 and is visable from the air and largely intact
Regards
john p
Mon May 22, 2006 11:55 pm
Hi Rob
As far as I know there are only two substantial B17s in PNG Swamp Ghost and the black cat Pass one as well as the underwater Black Jack?
Regards
John
As far as I know there are only two substantial B17s in PNG Swamp Ghost and the black cat Pass one as well as the underwater Black Jack?
Regards
John
Tue May 23, 2006 3:32 am
Finally, some pics, and details??
but now it appears Alfred Hagen is the person behind the project rather than David Tallichet??
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=929309#post929309
regards
Mark Pilkington
but now it appears Alfred Hagen is the person behind the project rather than David Tallichet??
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=929309#post929309
From the Post Courier (PNG Newspaper):
US bomber taken from Oro swamp
SWAMP GHOST, an American war plane that crashed into the swamps of Oro Province during World War II is about to be shipped out to the United States of America. The WWII bomber, a B17E plane is reportedly to be restored in the United States. The plane has been shifted from a swamp in Oro Province to Lae and is expected to be shipped to the USA soon. The National Museum authorities said a Fred Hagen from the US and a Robert Greinert from Australia, have been allowed to have the plane salvaged and restored in the United States at a cost of thousands of US dollars. It is believed the war relic, if sold could be worth over a million US dollars. National Museum acting director Simon Poraituk said in a letter last month that the National Museum and Art Gallery board of trustees have made a decision to let Mr Hagen salvage and restore the plane. The board was empowered by the National Museum and Art Gallery Act of 1992 to make decisions on war surplus materials that were protected by the war surplus material act (1952), he said then. The plane had remained fully intact for the last 64 years in Karaisa village of Oro Province. However, Karisa leaders Jerry Yogoni, Gilbert Yogoni, Gutari Yogoni, Colin Tom and the chairman of the Beach Head Battlefields Tourism Committee in Popondetta Joachim Olai do not want the plane to be salvaged, removed or damaged. They all agreed that the plane should be left where it was because it was “priceless” and that it could be used to attract tourist.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Tue May 23, 2006 5:54 am
Mark_Pilkington wrote:Finally, some pics, and details??
but now it appears Alfred Hagen is the person behind the project rather than David Tallichet??
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=929309#post929309From the Post Courier (PNG Newspaper):
US bomber taken from Oro swamp
SWAMP GHOST, an American war plane that crashed into the swamps of Oro Province during World War II is about to be shipped out to the United States of America. The WWII bomber, a B17E plane is reportedly to be restored in the United States. The plane has been shifted from a swamp in Oro Province to Lae and is expected to be shipped to the USA soon. The National Museum authorities said a Fred Hagen from the US and a Robert Greinert from Australia, have been allowed to have the plane salvaged and restored in the United States at a cost of thousands of US dollars. It is believed the war relic, if sold could be worth over a million US dollars. National Museum acting director Simon Poraituk said in a letter last month that the National Museum and Art Gallery board of trustees have made a decision to let Mr Hagen salvage and restore the plane. The board was empowered by the National Museum and Art Gallery Act of 1992 to make decisions on war surplus materials that were protected by the war surplus material act (1952), he said then. The plane had remained fully intact for the last 64 years in Karaisa village of Oro Province. However, Karisa leaders Jerry Yogoni, Gilbert Yogoni, Gutari Yogoni, Colin Tom and the chairman of the Beach Head Battlefields Tourism Committee in Popondetta Joachim Olai do not want the plane to be salvaged, removed or damaged. They all agreed that the plane should be left where it was because it was “priceless” and that it could be used to attract tourist.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Mark: Thanks for the story and finally some pics!!!
Tue May 23, 2006 6:08 am
If I had my way me and my trusty Maine Indian Companion ROB Rhor would clean out the jungle! 